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No spark or fuel #1005502 08/09/10 12:48 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10
K
Karathos Offline OP
Need a Spot
I tried posting this earlier but it didnt go, so heres try 2:

I am having issues with my engine, Its from a 1996 Sportage, I installed it into a 88 mazda, I have retained the whole wiring harness and sensors. My problem is I have tried to start it and i have no fuel or spark. I have checked voltage to the coils and also fuel at the fuel pressure regulator, Which both check out OK. Replaced the timing belt and made sure the timing was 100% correct, I've retraced all the wiring to be positive it is all connected correctly. I have no idea what could be causing this issue. I drive a 98 sportage daily and i am trying to use that to diagnose my issues but still cannot figure it out, any thoughts would be helpful.

Also i dont know if it is related or not but the engine cranks REALLY slowly.

Thanks again,

Ryan


98 Sportage 3" lift 31" Superswampers

88 B2200 Soon to have 2.0 kia engine
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Re: No spark or fuel [Re: Karathos] #1005503 08/09/10 01:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,243
DamKia Offline
Kia Moderator


Give us as much info as you have to hand...

Flat battery? Battery voltage?

Bad earth to ECU?

Does everything else work normally, headlights bright, etc?

Sounds like a more general power issue rather than engine specific from the limited info provided.

Try replacing all of your earth cables and cleaning contacts, or use jumper leads for "proof of concept" testing between the battery, chassis, body and engine. Everyone tends to concentrate on getting "good 12V" happening and forgetting that it's a return circuit via earth.


2002 Sporty , Ironman 2.5" spring, 2" body, 15 x 7 ROH wheels, K&N, 15 x 10.5 Simex Centipedes, Powerchip 91.

"Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level then beat you with experience!"
Re: No spark or fuel [Re: DamKia] #1005504 08/09/10 02:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 305
jaboo5322 Offline
Mudrunner
In a vehicle it's chassis ground, or common return. There is no earth common in a vehicle. You will have people thinking of house wiring. Every component on a vehicle must have a good chassis ground to make the connection back to the battery, which makes the chassis a common return. In a house with earth ground, you can technically run a ground stake into the earth and have a circuit work.


2001 Sportage, 4" RSG lift, Cragers W/31 10.5 Micky Claws, Warn Manual Hubs, 16 gallon Pro Street Fuel Cell, Custom Snorkel, K&N Filter.
1989 Dodge W250.
Re: No spark or fuel [Re: jaboo5322] #1005505 08/09/10 08:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,243
DamKia Offline
Kia Moderator
Quote
In a vehicle it's chassis ground, or common return. There is no earth common in a vehicle. You will have people thinking of house wiring. Every component on a vehicle must have a good chassis ground to make the connection back to the battery, which makes the chassis a common return. In a house with earth ground, you can technically run a ground stake into the earth and have a circuit work.


Aware of that (earth return).

My point is most ppl tend to ignore the earth connections between the battery and chassis/body/engine, when it needs to be as "good" as the positive 12v side of it. Corrosion is a biatch....

Jumper lead between batt -ve and chassis/body and one between batt -ve and engine with good clean healthy sized contact points and bypassing the existing earth wiring. If it is still sluggish on the starter I would be getting the battery tested.

Most ppl ahve a set of jumper leads in their kit and this is a zero cost way of eliminating or confirming the problem before spending any money.


2002 Sporty , Ironman 2.5" spring, 2" body, 15 x 7 ROH wheels, K&N, 15 x 10.5 Simex Centipedes, Powerchip 91.

"Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level then beat you with experience!"
Re: No spark or fuel [Re: DamKia] #1005506 08/09/10 11:33 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10
K
Karathos Offline OP
Need a Spot
Well I've checked the grounds, engine to frame/battery to frame/ecu to frame, still hasn't helped. I have an optima yellow top battery, so to eliminate that being the issue I also attacked jumper cables to my Kia run ing. Voltage is a good constant 14.6 attached. So I don't believe it's a charging ground issue.

Letme know what other information about the setup you need. Thank you


98 Sportage 3" lift 31" Superswampers

88 B2200 Soon to have 2.0 kia engine
Re: No spark or fuel [Re: Karathos] #1005507 08/09/10 01:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,243
DamKia Offline
Kia Moderator
Quote
Well I've checked the grounds, engine to frame/battery to frame/ecu to frame, still hasn't helped. I have an optima yellow top battery, so to eliminate that being the issue I also attacked jumper cables to my Kia run ing. Voltage is a good constant 14.6 attached. So I don't believe it's a charging ground issue.

Letme know what other information about the setup you need. Thank you


It is not so much "the set-up" that we need info on, but what exactly the symptoms and any other clues to what is happening as there is a hell of a lot of things it could be.

Give us a bit more info on what is happening...

Engine still turning over slowly with jumper leads and engine running in Kia, or is it turning over quicker?
What voltage were you referring to with the 14.6V, is that the Mazda "under charge" from the Kia via jumper leads or "off charge"?
Mazda battery voltage first thing in the morning after being left overnight? (still not convinced about the state of the battery as there has been insufficient evidence to clear it)
12V Power getting to the ECU (at the plug going into the ECU)?
Headlights bright when NOT connected to jumper leads/Kia (battery/earth check)?
Can you hear the fuel pump working?
Right sort of fuel pump? - EFI vs carbie pump would be vastly different working pressures. Carbie pump will NOT provide enough pressure to run an EFI system, and even a mismatched (too small) EFI pump may not have the guts to get the new engines fuel injection working. This may cause the ECU to shut down as a safety precaution.

Try to go about things methodically as there is obviously a very obvious thing that is being overlooked.

Could you get a hold of an OBDII scanner and list the error code numbers (will be in the form of P and a four digit number, P0*** or P1*** where * are digits from 0-9). Just list the numbers as some of the codes are a bit different from the generic OBDII codes in meaning.

"It doesn't work" isn't giving us a lot to work with.....We can't see or hear the issues so you have to be our eyes and ears and be explicitly clear about your descriptions.

"What, where, when, and how". What you measured, where you measured it, when you measured it, and how you measured it (circumstances). ie "12.6 volts measured at the ECU plug with the ignition on", or "engine turning over slowly with jumper leads connected and Kia engine running, voltage at starter 10.5V under load", etc.


2002 Sporty , Ironman 2.5" spring, 2" body, 15 x 7 ROH wheels, K&N, 15 x 10.5 Simex Centipedes, Powerchip 91.

"Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level then beat you with experience!"
Re: No spark or fuel [Re: DamKia] #1005508 08/09/10 02:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,224
Everet Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Quote

Could you get a hold of an OBDII scanner and list the error code numbers (will be in the form of P and a four digit number, P0*** or P1*** where * are digits from 0-9). Just list the numbers as some of the codes are a bit different from the generic OBDII codes in meaning.


It is my understanding that the engine needs to be running in order for the OBDII scanner to work. Maybe system is different in other countries.
Everet <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


WWW.UPYOURKIA.COM White 96,4x4, man.hubs,K&N filter,3row rad, twin 16" fans, 3" body lift, 4" UPYOURKIA LIFT KIT,265/75 16 TreadWrights on DC2 wheels,140 amp alt. dual batts.
Re: No spark or fuel [Re: DamKia] #1005509 08/09/10 02:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 433
Sportege_Panicmech Offline
Mudrunner
No fuel or spark, but cranks. Ya, I agree with the above. I also ask, how did it crank (slow). If slow, then your ECU may not have enough power (while your starter draw is present) to operate your engine. That could be due to low battery, a bad connection at the battery, grounds, pos at the fuse box, etc. Not likely to be bad connection at the battery or a low battery as I've seen my Kia BARELY crank over on a low battery and still fire right up, but never rule out until proven ok. If you have a jumper handy, place the pos on the battery terminal pos and neg on the engine block and try it again. Notice anything different? if so you've bypassed the problem such as the battery low, or connections. Johny 5's quote, "Need more Input!" <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

PS.. also could try a 'voltage drop' test. while someone starts engine, place the neg (-) terminal on the (+) of battery, then the (+) on the engine itself. if you find a large voltage on your voltmeter, then you've nailed a bad connection. For starter voltage drop tests the normal voltage drop difference is .5V or less most vehicles. So accounting for starter and devices, looking at probably .8 or less being norm. find 2-3+ while cranking your definately have a connection issue. hope it's that simple.

Re: No spark or fuel [Re: Everet] #1005510 08/09/10 03:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,243
DamKia Offline
Kia Moderator
Quote
Quote

Could you get a hold of an OBDII scanner and list the error code numbers (will be in the form of P and a four digit number, P0*** or P1*** where * are digits from 0-9). Just list the numbers as some of the codes are a bit different from the generic OBDII codes in meaning.


It is my understanding that the engine needs to be running in order for the OBDII scanner to work. Maybe system is different in other countries.
Everet <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


No, they can scan dead engines.....


2002 Sporty , Ironman 2.5" spring, 2" body, 15 x 7 ROH wheels, K&N, 15 x 10.5 Simex Centipedes, Powerchip 91.

"Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level then beat you with experience!"
Re: No spark or fuel [Re: DamKia] #1005511 08/09/10 10:14 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10
K
Karathos Offline OP
Need a Spot
Well, I hate to admit it, to my ignorance my chassis ground was poor,I should know better being that i have been a professional car audio installer for over 10 years. So i went and remade all my ground wires using 4ga wire from the battery to the frame, then also from the engine to the frame, made sure to connect to 100% bare metal. Now my slow cranking problem is gone, But still no spark or fuel.

Voltage is 14.6 volts while hooked up to my kia with jumper cables, with the kia running.

I am running the whole factory wiring harness from a 1997 kia sportage 4x4 with an automatic transmission. Nuetral saftey switch has been bypassed

I am running two fuse boxes in tandem. The factory mazda fuse box is controlling all of my lights,fan blower motor, stereo ect ect. Kia fuse box is just for the engine. Nothing more.

I have quadruple checked all of my fuses. And connections are all soldered not wrapped and taped or anything of that sort. I have good 12v constant, 12 volt switched at the ECU.

I am running a Summit racing brand external inline fuel pump part number SUM-G3138 Specs read:
Free Flow Rate 43 gph
Maximum Pressure (psi) 85 psi Multi-port EFI systems need a stable fuel supply at any rpm, and Summit® high-pressure, high-flow electric fuel pumps supply it. They feature a free-flow rate of 43 gph at up to 85 psi. Summit® high-flow pumps also have 5/16 in. inlet and outlets, brass stud terminals for secure connections, and two included cushioned clamps for inline mounting. They're ideal as stand-alone pumps for multi-port EFI systems on engines making up to 500 hp, or as boosters for nitrous applications.
(I can feel fuel running through both the supply and return fuel lines)



Any other information that would be helpful for you to help me diagnose this please just ask.

Thanks again, Ryan


98 Sportage 3" lift 31" Superswampers

88 B2200 Soon to have 2.0 kia engine
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