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Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. [Re: 4runnernomore] #1041715 02/10/12 12:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 19
K
kia74 Offline OP
Need a Spot
Hi there i do wont to share with everyone but putting up a post 2 up distracks from what we want to achive here and that is to put a diff lock in the original sportage case.Photos is a problem for me but i am learning.Just trying to find out if anyone on this board wants a real diff lock or instead get a traction device because it was to hard or not enough ponys.Buy the way i am not sellen anything just doing a step by step pocedure on what i know that will work. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


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Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. [Re: kia74] #1041716 02/10/12 12:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 19
K
kia74 Offline OP
Need a Spot
ok what we need is a list of key specification.I know they are on this board somewere but are they on one page.

1. Axel spline count is 26mmx27mm DIA

2. Inside DIA of ring is 117mm ( can some one confirm this)

3 What is the PCD of the bolt patten of the ring (meaning 10 bolts on a Pitch circul Dia of so many mm) needs to comfirmed. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

this will do for now and remember mazda was not the only one to make 7.5 inch rings quit common in all the motor industry <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


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Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. [Re: kia74] #1041717 02/10/12 01:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 19
K
kia74 Offline OP
Need a Spot
allso i would like to point out can we do all our measurements with a micrometer to the micky hair so we are not guessing.Thank Nick <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


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Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. [Re: kia74] #1041718 02/10/12 05:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 202
H
hadtomer Offline
Wheeler
WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT???? a greek diff, a limited slip diff (had it - not worth the effort), bringing one from brasil.....

guys - especialy down under- you have a diff lock maker only 5 flight hours away (no pricey shipment)-

DIFF LOCKERS ARE AVAILABLE FROM OFFROAD KOREA!!!! I have purchased one from a kia dealer in ISRAEL - the korean site is ok and their english is just fine

http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showf...8&an=&page=&vc=1

Im not talking limited slip - i mean a full locker - for both front and rear diffs. my locker is an automatic kind - much like the LOCKRIGHT you can find on many suzuki offroaders. it is NOT air operated like an ARB locker (you guys doun under probably know what in talking about). it works fine.

Last edited by hadtomer; 02/10/12 05:41 PM.

2001 sporty. 4 inch lift+ body lift-front lovlells coils+extended forks. reat tj. monroe shocks. full skid plate, auxilary fan. external oil cooler. maxxis 8060 235/75 R15 tires on american racing wheels. trackfinder rear diff lock.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3948684/2001-kia-sportage
Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. [Re: hadtomer] #1041719 02/10/12 08:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 326
Peabody Offline
Mudrunner
Yes, I am confused too. If you are talking about a true "locker", then you are either talking about a full-time locker (spool or welded-open carrier, aka "Lincoln locker", named after Lincoln arc welders commonly used to weld the spider gears to each other), or some form of automatic locker (ratcheting or manually-selectable on/off). Here's a link that sums up the differences of each: http://www.offroaders.com/tech/limited-slip-lockers-differentials.htm.

There are more options for the front axle, as I noted earlier. But those are either clutch-based LSDs or Torsen-type LSDs, the latter allowing for slip, but transferring power to the wheel with the most traction, where the clutch-types do the opposite. Basically, the torsen LSD sends power to the wheel providing the most resistance (i.e. traction). Clutch LSDs allow the wheel with the most resistance to slip - the drag breaks the locking friction within the clutch pack (i.e. "breakaway pressure"), effectively-disconnecting the "lagging wheel" from the drive system... until the drag force is reduced to a point where the breakaway pressure exceeds the drag of traction. For off-road applications, the torsen LSD is better-suited because the power is going to the traction wheel based on the "torque bias ratio", or TBR, of that torsen-design. The TBR is a multiplier, of sorts. If you had a torsen LSD with a 3:1 ratio, then the wheel with traction will receive 3X more torque than the other drive-wheel. However, if you get one wheel in the air, then you have no power going to the traction wheel (3X0=0). That is a problem, but can be overcome by simply touching the brake pedal to apply resistance to the wheel in the air. Then your multiplier is functioning again. Ah, but I digress... Track Finder does sell a Lock Right-style locker for the front axle (which I suspect would fit the rear diff/open carrier of the 26-sline rear axle, but will likely never confirm). But they are hard to come by and a locked front axle is not desirable on pavement. And there is the Kaiser locker, which appears to function like a torsen in principle, but uses a ratcheting-needle bearing design to engage and disengage the axles, as opposed to helical gears.

As noted, the options for the rear axle are limited. And the only known locking mechanism I've found that is made for the 1st-generation Sportage's rear differential is the Lock Right-style locker made by Track Finder. I have not found any manually-selectable locker (air, electric or hydraulic) sold in the U.S... or anywhere else, for that matter. The closest I've seen was of a modified ARB air-locker in a Sorento: http://www.sorentosite.com/forum/printthread.php?tid=6428.

So what do you mean by "locker"???


1997 Sportage 4x4, auto-trans, Warn manual hubs, 4" UPYOURKIA front lift, TJ 106AA rear springs, 2-5/8" body lift, 31x10.50 treads, SmittyBilt SRC front and XRC rear bumper, swing-out tire mount, OBX LSD front diff, Track Finder rear locker, 5.38 R&Ps and... really crappy gas mileage! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />
Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. [Re: hadtomer] #1041720 02/11/12 03:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 387
4
4runnernomore Offline
Mudrunner
Quote
WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT???? a greek diff, a limited slip diff (had it - not worth the effort), bringing one from brasil.....

guys - especialy down under- you have a diff lock maker only 5 flight hours away (no pricey shipment)-

DIFF LOCKERS ARE AVAILABLE FROM OFFROAD KOREA!!!! I have purchased one from a kia dealer in ISRAEL - the korean site is ok and their english is just fine


Hi Hadtomer,

Have you tried the link lately. It appears to be compromised. Every time I try to go the website and the various links I have saved both my computers come up with a warning saying that accessing this link will result in damage to the computer or the transfer of SPY WARE. ENTER AT OWN RISK. I have also tried to email PICORP over the past couple of weeks with no reply. Can you try from your end to see if you have any better luck?

THe Greek diff was another option we were all looking into around 4 years ago but as know one was able to establish a reliable contact, price etc it fell by the wayside. I included the link to his website and occasionally you see in other forums refernce to his business, so he does appear to be trading.

For the forum,

The biggest thing people appear to baulk at is the price ( no offence to anyone on the website). Over the years I have found various items like extractors, Engine management chips, Dual battery cradles, Difflocks, Other options to suspension, etc for our Sporty's but because these types of items are not freely available in America for the Sporty's and can be purchased for other models of vehicles quite cheaply over there people do not appear to want to spend the dollars for Sporty specific items that due to small volumeof sales and a niche audience will cost more.

Unfortunately availability of aftermarket support is very limited for our rigs and when an option is found it comes at a cost. Only some people have capitilised ;like yourself and I with difflock options and a few others from the forum.

Guys I think it is time to realise that if you want specific aftermarket items for the Sportage it will usually come at a higher cost than what you can purchase the same items for other cars in America.

I am happy to start another thread and repost all the items and links I have found in Australia that provide aftermarket support for our Sporty's. Perhaps the moderators could make it a Sticky for future referenceinstead of people having to search through all the threads to find the various options. Other's could add to it once they have purchased a part and support has been verified from other parts of the world. These include extractors or headers from wild cat/Genie, second battery trays from Pirahna, Cargo barriers from Milford, Alloy bars from BCF andTJM(not sure if TJM make theirs any more). Aftermarket springs from Dobinson, Ultimate and King Springs in various lifts from 25 mm to 75 mm.

Cheers, Chris. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


97 Sporty, snorkel, K&N filter,chipped, ext forks, 40mm Dob Springs, KYB struts, 35mm Jeep TJ Springs, RAV 4 OME shocks, Kaiser Locker 5.38 R&P's, 1&3/8 body lift, 245/75 R16 D674's Sports steering wheel, bullbar, extractors & 2 1/4 exhaust engineered.
Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. [Re: 4runnernomore] #1041721 02/11/12 06:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 19
K
kia74 Offline OP
Need a Spot
can we not just get measurment and talk about the job at hand we need a mod here <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />


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Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. [Re: kia74] #1041722 02/11/12 06:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 387
4
4runnernomore Offline
Mudrunner
Hopefully I still have the CAD drawings from Kaiser on the work computer.

If I find them I will try and work out a way to post them up.

For some one who has recently hit the forum you are promising a lot. I hope you don't get other peoples hopes up for nothing. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />

Cheers, Chris


97 Sporty, snorkel, K&N filter,chipped, ext forks, 40mm Dob Springs, KYB struts, 35mm Jeep TJ Springs, RAV 4 OME shocks, Kaiser Locker 5.38 R&P's, 1&3/8 body lift, 245/75 R16 D674's Sports steering wheel, bullbar, extractors & 2 1/4 exhaust engineered.
Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. [Re: kia74] #1041723 02/11/12 08:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 202
H
hadtomer Offline
Wheeler
OK- lets sort things out:

1. My rear locker - from trackfinder- is a FULLY LOCKING DIFF - it is not air operated, not electric- its an automatic kind. if you go to wikipedia- its the first kind:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locking_differential

Automatic lockers lock and unlock automatically with no direct input from the driver. Some automatic locking differential designs ensure that engine power is always transmitted to both wheels, regardless of traction conditions, and will "unlock" only when one wheel is required to spin faster than the other during cornering. They will never allow either wheel to spin slower than the differential carrier or axle as a whole, but will permit a wheel to be over-driven faster than the carrier speed. The most common example of this type would be the famous "Detroit Locker," also known as the "Detroit No-Spin," which replaces the entire differential carrier assembly. Others, sometimes referred to as "lunchbox lockers," employ the stock differential carrier and replace only the internal spider gears and shafts with interlocking plates. Both types of automatic lockers will allow for a degree of differential wheel speed while turning corners in conditions of equal traction, but will otherwise lock both axle shafts together when traction conditions demand it.
Pros: Automatic action, no driver interaction necessary, no stopping for (dis-) engagement necessary
Cons: Increased tire wear and noticeable impact on driving behavior. During cornering, the automatic locker is characterized by heavy understeer which transitions instantly to power oversteer when traction is exceeded.
Some other automatic lockers operate as an open differential until wheelspin is encountered and then they lockup. This style generally uses an internal governor to sense a difference in wheel speeds. An example of this would be GM's "Gov-Lok."

2 - modifications ARE available for the sportage - but do not come cheap - if i were living down under- id be very happy with what local firms have to offer - lots of stuff on my rig came from OZ- my LOVELLS coil springs - my old man emu rear tracking arms for instance. right now im saving for some extractors - also from OZ (pricey shipment...).

3 - whatever you cant get down under - you can get from korea -

diff locks - trackfinder

front extended forks ? got them too
https://picasaweb.google.com/108546094129487904656/TrackfinderLiftForks#5623151495809179170

4 - cant get the part? get creative !!! no rear springs for big flex? get some tj springs. no re locating the rear panhard mount? do it yourself -

https://picasaweb.google.com/10854609412...798459869793218

5 - yes - i will admit that modifications for my kia are far mor expensive than modifications for a suzuki - but the kia is kind of special...i like it. people with wranglers are always surprised on the trail - and i LOVE IT!! so im willing to spend more on my hobby.


2001 sporty. 4 inch lift+ body lift-front lovlells coils+extended forks. reat tj. monroe shocks. full skid plate, auxilary fan. external oil cooler. maxxis 8060 235/75 R15 tires on american racing wheels. trackfinder rear diff lock.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3948684/2001-kia-sportage
Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. [Re: hadtomer] #1041724 02/11/12 09:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 326
Peabody Offline
Mudrunner
Oh no! My Sporty is LSD positive!!! Does that mean it has Traction AIDS?!? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" />


1997 Sportage 4x4, auto-trans, Warn manual hubs, 4" UPYOURKIA front lift, TJ 106AA rear springs, 2-5/8" body lift, 31x10.50 treads, SmittyBilt SRC front and XRC rear bumper, swing-out tire mount, OBX LSD front diff, Track Finder rear locker, 5.38 R&Ps and... really crappy gas mileage! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />
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