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5.38 R&P upgrade!!! #1053057 10/24/12 01:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 326
Peabody Offline OP
Mudrunner
I've started my upgrade to 5.38 R&Ps, along with fixing some problems I had with my OBX helical LSD front diff (spec'd for the Miata) and upgrading the rear axle to 28-spline with a Track Finder locker. The mods to the OBX diff are in another thread. So I won't get into those details here. I have just finished the upgrade and reinstall of the front axle. The rear axle is still pending (hope to get it done this weekend). So here are the details on the front axle build...


Here's a pic of the new ring gear on my OBX diff...

[Linked Image]


Before installing the new ring gear, I used a diamond-coated hone made for sharpening blades/knives to smooth out the high spots created from the drilling and tapping of the bolt holes. This pic was taken after the first pass with the hone. You can see the high spots as more silver-colored from the coating being removed.

[Linked Image]


And here's the finished product. The process was a bit tedious because the diamond hone was the only tool I had that would cut into the hardened steel of the ring gear. But it worked out well...

[Linked Image]


I had solid pinion spacers made by a company here in Nor Cal: http://www.weirperformance.com/solidpinionspacerkits.html. Spence Weir makes solid spacers for the Miata. I thought they would be a drop-in fit with the Sporty. But the pinion bearings, though nearly identical, are just different enough that the Miata spacer is a little shorter. So Spence fabbed up a pair that would fit the Sporty. The stock crush sleeve is on the left and the new spacer with adjusting shims are on the right... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


[Linked Image]


The run out on the ring gear was only 0.001" after doing some work to "tune" the OBX diff. Again, those details are in the OBX thread...

[Linked Image]


I was able to reuse the same pinion shim that was paired with the factory 4.77 R&P. The contact patterns appeared to show the pinion being too low. But when I tried shimming it up, the position of the contact patterns didn't move, they only became more narrow, which meant the amount of surface area contacting between the teeth was getting smaller. So I went back to the factory shim and proceeded to do the final install.

Here's the drive side...

[Linked Image]


And the coast side...

[Linked Image]


I did a complete tear-down on the front axle housing, cleaned it up "reel perty" and built 'er back up nice-n-tight! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" /> I was able to reuse the axle bearing, as it felt as good as new. But I did replace all 3 seals, for good measure. FYI - many parts catalogs show an inner and outer front axle bearing. There is only 1 bearing and it is a sealed unit. The parts catalogs show an RW101 wheel race and a #206 bearing. The dimensions on both are identical, implying they are both complete bearing units. So if you ever have replace this bearing, make sure you are getting the right part... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />

[Linked Image]


And here's a pic of the front axle, just before I popped it back in the Sporty!!!

[Linked Image]


And now for some quick notes...

I had first ordered the Timken pinion bearings (32206M and 32207M) because they were close-out priced. The bearings are the same as the 32206 and 32207. But the height of the bearing races differ only by about 0.002". I found the Timken bearings to be rough compared the National bearings (32206 & 32207) I had picked up later, after I decided to rebuild both the front and rear diffs. They were so rough, I was concerned that they would wear out prematurely. And for all the work it takes to rebuild the front diff, I didn't want to take the chance. I recommend using the National bearings. They are very good quality and will spare you a lot of hassle.

Another important bit of trivia is that the 32206 and 32207-series bearings have a different cone angle than the factory bearings (32206C and 32207C). The aftermarket bearings are much stronger and handle a higher load than the bearings Kia uses. I say the 32206 and 32207 bearings are the way to go for a stronger diff...

The solid spacer: I really like it. Yes, solid spacers take a bit more work to set up. But they are worth the $$$ and effort, in my opinion (oh-pinion... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />). The easiest way to set it up is to have a set of "setup" bearings, which have the bore sanded out just enough that the bearings will slide on and off the pinion - no press required. That will let you set up the preload using the newly-installed races without having to remove the inner pinion bearing (32207). I ended up damaging the roller cage on the 32207M bearing during this process. So the Timken bearings are now my setup-set. If you are doing both the front and rear, it's worth dropping the extra dime to make a pair of setup bearings. Also, here's the most cost-effective tool to purchase for measuring the bearing preload: http://www.parktool.com/product/torque-wrench-tw-1. They cost about $40. But this is one of the few deflection-beam-type torque wrenches that measures in the low inch-pound range. And you can use it for measuring your wheel bearing preload when you pull your front hubs too!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


That's all for now. I hope to post the details of the rear axle build very soon...

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />

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Re: 5.38 R&P upgrade!!! [Re: Peabody] #1053058 10/24/12 04:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 81
R
Runt313 Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Very nice work you should be proud! hopefully start at looking at simaliar setup this new year! soooooo much work tho :0( keep us posted on bugs please

Re: 5.38 R&P upgrade!!! [Re: Runt313] #1053059 10/24/12 05:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 326
Peabody Offline OP
Mudrunner
Thanks! I will try to get more of the how-to on the setting up the R&P when I work on the rear diff. The front was a special situation because I was dealing with the OBX diff. And I was rushing to beat the rain that hit Nor Cal on Sunday night. The rear should be more straight-forward and I hope to have more time to get good pics of the process. More to come...

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />


1997 Sportage 4x4, auto-trans, Warn manual hubs, 4" UPYOURKIA front lift, TJ 106AA rear springs, 2-5/8" body lift, 31x10.50 treads, SmittyBilt SRC front and XRC rear bumper, swing-out tire mount, OBX LSD front diff, Track Finder rear locker, 5.38 R&Ps and... really crappy gas mileage! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />
Re: 5.38 R&P upgrade!!! [Re: Peabody] #1053060 10/29/12 06:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 326
Peabody Offline OP
Mudrunner
I have finished installing the rebuilt rear-axle from a 2000 Sporty with the Track Finder locker and 5.38 R&P! And it works!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I literally just got back from my first test-drive. So I don't have time to post the how-to pics and write-up. That will come soon. I'm just happy the rear diff is working and nothing is leaking. I also installed some aftermarket Jeep Rubicon springs in the rear (106AA equivalents). They seem to be helping out with the extra mass in the rear... and the outward-roll I'm getting while turning due to the extra traction. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" /> It definitely drives differently with a locker. And there are some very interesting noises generated by the locker when turning. I can hear the locker ratcheting during a turn. But it will occasionally make a big bang when the locker locks back up while coming out of a turn. I'm sure I'll be getting some odd looks from people when it sounds off - like my rig is about to self-destruct... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, so far, so good! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />


1997 Sportage 4x4, auto-trans, Warn manual hubs, 4" UPYOURKIA front lift, TJ 106AA rear springs, 2-5/8" body lift, 31x10.50 treads, SmittyBilt SRC front and XRC rear bumper, swing-out tire mount, OBX LSD front diff, Track Finder rear locker, 5.38 R&Ps and... really crappy gas mileage! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />
Re: 5.38 R&P upgrade!!! [Re: Peabody] #1053061 10/30/12 06:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 326
Peabody Offline OP
Mudrunner
And now for the lengthy tutorial. Yes, it is very long and there are lots of pictures... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/baby.gif" alt="" />


Here's a photo of the Track Finder locker installed in the open carrier. I purchased mine already installed through a middle-man in South Korea. I suspect the locker isn't too hard to install. But all-in-all, I think buying it with the carrier isn't a bad way to go.

[Linked Image]


I found the easiest way to install the ring gear and torque it to 56 ft/lbs was to hold it in a vice, using the flat sides of the carrier as the bind-point...

[Linked Image]


Before doing anything else, I mounted the diff in the housing without the pinion installed, applying some preload on the carrier bearings to ensure there was no lateral-play. Then I measured the run-out on the backside of the ring gear. It was off by only 0.001-0.002". So I continued with the installation of the pinion...

[Linked Image]


Here's a pic of the solid spacer with shims and the crush sleeve I pulled off the old pinion. Yes, the solid spacer is definitely a good way to go. And I'll argue that the setup is easier than a crush sleeve...

[Linked Image]


The pinion spacer sits between the two pinion bearings. It establishes AND maintains a set-physical distance between the bearings, allowing them to be compressed a wee-bit by the pinion nut - but only enough to set the proper preload on the bearings. The distance between the bearings will always be correct, no matter how much torque is applied by the pinion nut. That is not the case with a crush sleeve...

[Linked Image]


Setting the preload is not as difficult as some people will argue. The first step in the process is to load the pinion with the solid spacer AND all of the shims that are included with it. After torquing down the pinion nut (you can do this with an impact wrench), you need to measure the amount of play between the pinion bearings. This can be done by using a dial indicator on the end of the pinion gear...

[Linked Image]


I measured 0.038" of play with all shims installed...

[Linked Image]


Once you have that value, remove the pinion and measure the shim stack.

[Linked Image]


Then remove a number of shims equal to that value, or as close as you can get. This will set your "zero-load".

[Linked Image]


Re-install your pinion with spacer and the zero-load shim stack and torque it all down. You should have zero-lash in the bearings, but the pinion should spin easily (no preload). Per the instructions from Weir Performance, you should then remove about 0.003-0.004" of shim to establish proper preload.

[Linked Image]

NOTE: Kia specs the pinion bearing preload at 10 inch-pounds. Weir, per the Miata specs, states 15-20 inch pounds is appropriate for new bearings. After looking at a variety of spec for similar-sized pinion sets, I will say that if you can get anywhere in the 10-20 inch-pound range, go with it. You might not be able to remove the "perfect" amount of shim - and it will be only 1 shim.

I was doing my initial setup using a pair of bearings that had the bores opened up just enough that they would slide on and off the pinion shaft - no press required. After getting the preload set with those bearings, I found the preload was too high for the permament bearing set I was installing. So I had to take out another 0.004" of shim (about) to get an acceptable preload. Fine-tuning the preload was easy. And using the setup-bearings minimized the number of times I had to press the front/outer pinion bearing on and off the shaft. I think the setup-bearings are a good investment. But that's just my opinion...

Once you have the pinon bearing preload set, you should measure the run-out on the pinion flange. Per Kia specs, it should be no more than 0.004" (off the top of my head). But with a new set of bearings, I measured 0.000"...

[img]http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af117/peabody1986/Sportage/DSC01522.jpg[/img]


So you have your pinion dialed in. What's next? Load your diff carrier into the housing with the pinion installed. Adjust the bearing preload and backlash. If you don't have "pin wrench", you can use two punches or similar tools with a pry bar to adjust the carrier bearing position and preload...

[img]http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af117/peabody1986/Sportage/DSC01515.jpg[/img]


Then you will begin the lengthy-ballet of adjusting the bearings, measuring the preload and the backlash...

Preload: Kia spec is based on a "Go/No-Go" tool. Miatas and RX7s are spec'd at 7.3004-7.3031" (1.8 diff - same as our Sporty diffs, both front and rear). Measure the preload on the opposing-flats on the bearing caps. Measure both pairs and make sure they are within spec...

[img]http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af117/peabody1986/Sportage/DSC01517.jpg[/img]


Then measure your backlash using a dial indicator. Measure a minimum of 4 points on the ring gear - every 1/4-turn. I found that the values changed on the same tooth within 3-4 rotations. I suspect this is probably due to the pairing of a specific ring gear tooth with differing positions on the pinion. If a majority of your values are within spec (0.0036-0.0043"), you are good. I found a range of 0.0025-0.005" on my values, with most being within 0.003-0.004". As long as you aren't getting any tight spots (0.000") or excessively-loose, then don't sweat it. If you do, try removing your ring gear, rotating it 90 or 180 degrees, then check it again. That might do the trick...

[img]http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af117/peabody1986/Sportage/DSC01516.jpg[/img]

Once you have the preload and backlash set, apply some gear marking compound to the ring gear. I applied it to about 4 teeth at each position I measured the backlash. The compound I used doesn't dry like paint. So the excess will carry over to the unmarked teeth on the ring gear. You will be able to see the contact pattern all around the ring gear - no need to mark every tooth. Turn the ring gear around 3 times in both directions. I have read the R&P should be "under load" when checking the contact pattern. But I have also heard from auto-tech instructors that you can't get a realistic amount of preload on a 3rd member-type diff. So testing-on-the-bench is fine.

That noted, the purpose of looking at the contact pattern is to verify that the pinion shim located between the inner/rear pinion bearing (32207) and the pinion head establishes the proper depth between pinion and ring gear. I found that the factory-installed shims with my front and rear 4.77 R&Ps were the perfect match with the new 5.38 R&Ps. So there's a good chance that your old pinion shim is the one you will need. If you need more depth, try getting a shim set for a Dana 30 pinion. The shims are very close in bore-diameter to the Sporty's and should be a good match. Also, Dana 30 pinion shim kits are readily-available (in the U.S., at least). Here's a set of pics showing a good contact pattern... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Drive side of gear...

[img]http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af117/peabody1986/Sportage/DSC01514.jpg[/img]

Coast side of gear...

[img]http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af117/peabody1986/Sportage/DSC01513.jpg[/img]


Setting the pinion depth will likely be the hardest part of the job if the stock-shim doesn't get it done. Moving the pinion closer to the ring gear is easy - just add some extra shims. But moving the pinion away from the ring gear will require a thinner shim altogether... or a stack of thin, compatible shims. However, I strongly-suspect the factory shim will do the job, and do it well.

Once you have a good contact pattern, torque down your bearing caps and locking tabs, then crack open some brew and celebrate - you're ready to load that 3rd member up and get that pony back on the trail!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Two last tips...

- I found it was best to mount the dial indicator to the housing using a 3/8" bolt (long... 7", at least). The magnetic base I was using couldn't get a stable hold on the diff housing. So mounting directly to the housing will give you the most accurate measurements. And when you are dealing with 0.001" values, a stable mount will save you lots of time and frustration...

[img]http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af117/peabody1986/Sportage/DSC01502.jpg[/img]


- And here's how to secure the pinion while torquing or removing the pinion nut. Don't try to hold the flange with your hand... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" />

[img]http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af117/peabody1986/Sportage/DSC01508.jpg[/img]



On Everet's cocktail-scale, I'd rate this job a full-kegger!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" />

But you CAN do it!!!

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />


1997 Sportage 4x4, auto-trans, Warn manual hubs, 4" UPYOURKIA front lift, TJ 106AA rear springs, 2-5/8" body lift, 31x10.50 treads, SmittyBilt SRC front and XRC rear bumper, swing-out tire mount, OBX LSD front diff, Track Finder rear locker, 5.38 R&Ps and... really crappy gas mileage! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />
Re: 5.38 R&P upgrade!!! [Re: Peabody] #1053062 10/30/12 06:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 326
Peabody Offline OP
Mudrunner
I forgot to mention one thing... When doing the final-install of the pinion nut, I filled the cavity between the pinion splines and the pinion nut and washer with RTV sealant. It might not be needed. But this is one spot on the pinion that doesn't have a seal and could be a point of leakage. This is a trick I picked up from watching how-to-build-a-diff videos on YouTube...

[Linked Image]

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />


1997 Sportage 4x4, auto-trans, Warn manual hubs, 4" UPYOURKIA front lift, TJ 106AA rear springs, 2-5/8" body lift, 31x10.50 treads, SmittyBilt SRC front and XRC rear bumper, swing-out tire mount, OBX LSD front diff, Track Finder rear locker, 5.38 R&Ps and... really crappy gas mileage! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />
Re: 5.38 R&P upgrade!!! [Re: Peabody] #1053063 10/31/12 01:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 64
TeamCatFlap Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Very nice write up. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


2001 Kia Sportage
Warn manual hubs, 2" spacer up front, TJ 105 springs Rav4 shocks, 235/75/15 BFG A/T KOs, Skidplate back to under the T-case, trans cooler, XRC8 winch on custom bumper, Synth winch line, fuel can mount, Rigid D2 Dually overhead lights.
Re: 5.38 R&P upgrade!!! [Re: Peabody] #1053064 10/31/12 10:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 81
R
Runt313 Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
dam right its different with the lockers Ive found selecting your gear pre corner and evenly accelarating thru will keep noise to min!and no braking in corner either, my 2nd gear in low revz stutters a little so i just go to high 1st gear revz, and when the 4wd is locked its like driving a square! but you get used to it, first trip friday! hope you have a good weekend and get her dirty too <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />

Re: 5.38 R&P upgrade!!! [Re: Runt313] #1053065 11/01/12 05:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 64
TeamCatFlap Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
You're gonna love being locked on the trails. My last wheeler I welded up the rear diff in. And though it totally sucked on the street. It felt unstoppable on the trails.

Yeah I think mine will stay clean this weekend.
Going to try and put together the rest of my lift and straighten out and beef up the skidplate I bent on some rocks out at TSF (the area we have legal trails) last weekend.

There is a run going on on Sunday though....... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


2001 Kia Sportage
Warn manual hubs, 2" spacer up front, TJ 105 springs Rav4 shocks, 235/75/15 BFG A/T KOs, Skidplate back to under the T-case, trans cooler, XRC8 winch on custom bumper, Synth winch line, fuel can mount, Rigid D2 Dually overhead lights.
Re: 5.38 R&P upgrade!!! [Re: TeamCatFlap] #1053066 10/03/13 01:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 62
Davey Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Excellent thread!!
Awaiting my TF and 5.38's in the mail.. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cyclops.gif" alt="" />


Long a$$ 2000 Sporty, auto, 5.38 gears, TF front locker, 4"+ front lift (Kings +40 springs, 50mm spacers, 1.5" diff drop), TJ 104 rears 3" + 50mm coil spacers, 1.5" body lift, 31/10.5r15's on 15x8 Kings (ET-13), WARN manuals, Smart Bar, spotties
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