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Re: Crank pulley wobble with new pulley and tight bolt - 98 Montero [Re: plh] #1076062
01/05/15 08:48 PM
01/05/15 08:48 PM
danz91crx  Offline
Wheeler
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 173
New York
Your method sounds good to me too. As long as there is an OEM one to measure.
Here is the PN I found on ASA for the 3.0 MD008959
Thats the only vin I have in mine right now sorry I couldn't get you a PN for yours poolecr

Last edited by danz91crx; 01/05/15 08:56 PM.

1990 LWB RS A/T
1990 LWB Base A/T
1991 LWB LS A/T Going...Going...
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Re: Crank pulley wobble with new pulley and tight bolt - 98 Montero [Re: poolecr] #1076063
01/05/15 08:55 PM
01/05/15 08:55 PM
Jay Ayala  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,758
Hillsboro, OR.
Quote
Originally posted by danz91crx
The woodruff key lines the pulleys up so they are in time. The force from the bolt pushes them farther onto the crank which is tapered. I would double check the order of the parts going on the crank in the FSM and what you have going onto the crank and make sure nothing is missing there. If the pulleys were not seating the crank would spin inside the pulleys and shear the woodruff key, the engine would quit because the cams would no longer turn. I've had first hand experience shearing a woodruff key on a CRF450 that I had. Couldn't figure out why it wouldn't run until I pulled the flywheel off the crank. You can download the ASA tool to look up parts for your montero on mitsubishilinks.com I believe. Thats if you want an OEM woodruff key. A dealer could probably get you the part number too.

[EDIT] Maybe try starting it up and check the engine side of your crank pulley for signs of wobbling with a flashlight. If you haven't already. Could be less things to play tricks on your eyes that way. [/EDIT]


If the timing sprocket is "loose" or the key way is larger than you would expect it to fit over the woodruff key, replace the timing sprocket with a new one.

Quote
Originally posted by poolecr
...
---------What I'm suspicious of---------

1. The crank sprocket keyway looks undamaged, BUT appears larger than I would expect. The sprocket has nearly 1/2 tooth worth of rotational play on the crank when not torqued down. It fits rather loosely onto the crankshaft as well. Can anyone confirm if this is normal? The woodruff key itself is extremely tight in the crank keyway, so I didn't try to remove it.

2. The crank pulley was surprisingly easy to press onto the sprocket. It's a fairly loose fit until the bolt is torqued. When I first removed the original pulley, it was very tightly fused to the sprocket.
...


I keep coming back to this comment. I remember my 3.0L more because I've done it 4 times as opposed to helping out my wife overhaul her 3.5L. However, the timing sprocket is a super snug fit keyway onto the woodruff key. Why is yours larger??? hmmm...

Quote
Originally posted by poolecr
...
Woodruff key would be worth replacing, it does appear to be seated slightly more deeply into the crank at the end nearer to the block. Any advice on getting it out? Seems pretty stuck. Also, anyone have any info on the part number for that key? Can't seem to find it at the online OEM suppliers.
...


When I did my 1989 Overhaul in Jan of 2014, I replaced the woodruff key too. It was rather stubborn but once I broke it free, it was just a really snug fit and I could wiggle it out by hand.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


89 Raider - V6, Automatic, rear LSD, A/C Retrofit, Cruise Control Retrofit.
Re: Crank pulley wobble with new pulley and tight bolt - 98 Montero [Re: poolecr] #1076064
01/05/15 09:24 PM
01/05/15 09:24 PM
Jay Ayala  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,758
Hillsboro, OR.
Quote
Originally posted by poolecr
...
--plh- Yes, the bolt length will be my first check once I get back to the truck (out of town this week). As for the washer direction- It appears symmetrical except for a small chamfer on one side of the inner diameter. Matching the original installation, I oriented this chamfer outward, away from the block. Do you recall if this is correct?
...


I know that what I'm about to show you is different than what you have but check this out. I just found a picture of my bolt length in the 3.0L crankshaft. I would expect to get about the same on your bolt and 3.5L crankshaft. It didn't bottom out even with the Harmonic Balancer off the crank shaft. The only thing I had on there was that new concave washer. That was what was stopping the bolt from going any further into the crank.

[Linked Image]


89 Raider - V6, Automatic, rear LSD, A/C Retrofit, Cruise Control Retrofit.
Re: Crank pulley wobble with new pulley and tight bolt - 98 Montero [Re: plh] #1076065
01/05/15 09:48 PM
01/05/15 09:48 PM
P
poolecr  Offline OP
Need a Spot
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 14
Palmdale, CA
So to hit some of the excellent points addressed-

The woodruff slot in the crankshaft seemed to be in good shape when I last looked at it, with the key firmly in place. The keyway in the crank sprocket is where the slop comes from, and even though the sprocket appears undamaged, there is noticeable play. Odd. Sounds like I shouldn't have too much trouble getting that key out, then I can sort out the proper replacement. The crank sprocket itself will just have to be replaced.

As for the crankshaft bolt, yep, it's the pink one, all clear on that front.

To clarify a bit on the crank/key/pulley relationship, check these shots out of a pulley and sprocket:
Sprocket
Pulley
The only thing aligning the pulley and sprocket is the roll pin, with centering coming from the sprocket OD and pulley ID. Through hole in the pulley is for the bolt only, no part of the crank passes through. My apologies if I am mistaking anyone's comments, but I wasn't sure if all the Monty engines used this configuration or not. From a design perspective it seems odd to me that the crank doesn't extend all the way through and key into the pulley.

So with reference to Dan's comments, with this setup I've read of instances where that roll pin shears and lets the pulley spin around the bolt/sprocket, while the sprocket remains keyed to the crank and thankfully keeps those cams turning. In my case the pin is intact, but it would seem that the root of my wobble would be the slop in the sprocket... Any slight play at that sprocket would only become worse out at the end of the pulley. Not sure I can get a decent look at the back-of-pulley/front-of-sprocket interface while it's running with the t-belt cover currently installed.

Still hoping it's the bolt that's too long, which would be the simpler of the fixes!


1998 Gen 2.5 Montero w/ winter package
Re: Crank pulley wobble with new pulley and tight bolt - 98 Montero [Re: Jay Ayala] #1076066
01/05/15 09:52 PM
01/05/15 09:52 PM
plh  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,422
Milwaukee Wisconsin
here are the 3.0l and 3.5/3.8l bolts

web page

web page


  • 88 Raider: 5 spd, 4.62 LSD F & R, T/L, OME Rear Springs, KYB G/A, 33/12.5/15" MTZs, PLH LOs, Justice Bumper, Dual Bouncies, 4D56T in -running soon!
  • 1992 RS M/T
  • 1993 SR
  • 2005 Montero LTD
  • Gen 1 - PARTS FOR SALE
  • http://www.tuffpans.com
Re: Crank pulley wobble with new pulley and tight bolt - 98 Montero [Re: poolecr] #1076067
01/05/15 10:01 PM
01/05/15 10:01 PM
P
poolecr  Offline OP
Need a Spot
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 14
Palmdale, CA
You guys are quick! Thanks for the PN attempt Dan, I'll keep digging and figure mine out.

Jay, appreciate the pics, thanks. My feelings exactly on the size of the sprocket keyway, very strange. The amount of play seems unusual, but the part doesn't look worn or damaged in any way. My only thought would be that for some reason it was once replaced with a non-OEM part...??

Doesn't look like all that much is different between the two engines in the crank area. If the crank is really threaded that deep it seems like there's no way that I'm bottoming out the bolt, though I'll be doing this same test ASAP to see.

Good stuff on the key fit. Once I break mine loose I'll see how it compares.

Not to stray too far from the matter at hand, but once I'm back down to this point, would you recommend doing my front oil seal as well? I'd originally left it alone since it seemed to be in fine shape.


1998 Gen 2.5 Montero w/ winter package
Re: Crank pulley wobble with new pulley and tight bolt - 98 Montero [Re: plh] #1076068
01/05/15 10:03 PM
01/05/15 10:03 PM
Jay Ayala  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,758
Hillsboro, OR.
Perhaps you may find these photos useful. They are from my old 1997 Montero SR 3.5L. I replaced the HB and the washer and bolt.


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


89 Raider - V6, Automatic, rear LSD, A/C Retrofit, Cruise Control Retrofit.
Re: Crank pulley wobble with new pulley and tight bolt - 98 Montero [Re: poolecr] #1076069
01/05/15 10:10 PM
01/05/15 10:10 PM
P
poolecr  Offline OP
Need a Spot
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 14
Palmdale, CA
Thanks for those bolt measurements plh. I'm regretting posting all this while away from the truck, now I'm just itching to get my hands on it and compare!

To the best I can tell, that 3.5L bolt looks correct, though the part number I ordered was 1100A141. I'm assuming that the A022 is just a new PN for the latest replacement. Unfortunately didn't save the bag mine came in but judging by appearances it was an A022.

The thing I'm especially curious about now is my sprocket. I wonder if it is way out of spec, particularly the keyway.


1998 Gen 2.5 Montero w/ winter package
Re: Crank pulley wobble with new pulley and tight bolt - 98 Montero [Re: poolecr] #1076070
01/05/15 10:15 PM
01/05/15 10:15 PM
Jay Ayala  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,758
Hillsboro, OR.
Quote
You guys are quick! Thanks for the PN attempt Dan, I'll keep digging and figure mine out.

Jay, appreciate the pics, thanks. My feelings exactly on the size of the sprocket keyway, very strange. The amount of play seems unusual, but the part doesn't look worn or damaged in any way. My only thought would be that for some reason it was once replaced with a non-OEM part...??

Doesn't look like all that much is different between the two engines in the crank area. If the crank is really threaded that deep it seems like there's no way that I'm bottoming out the bolt, though I'll be doing this same test ASAP to see.

Good stuff on the key fit. Once I break mine loose I'll see how it compares.

Not to stray too far from the matter at hand, but once I'm back down to this point, would you recommend doing my front oil seal as well? I'd originally left it alone since it seemed to be in fine shape.


I've got a lot of pictures from my 3.0L overhaul, but sadly I didn't document the 3.5L the way I normally like to because it was my wife overhauling and I was helping. It threw me off from my normal game. So no problem on the photos, I just wish I had the same amount I normally take for the 3.5L. Dang I missed my chance.

Yes, I am 99% sure that what you have is a non OEM timing sprocket. This 3.5L engine was used on a lot of different makes and models so it wouldn't surprise me if someone may have thought, hmm... Close enough!

How sure are you that there was half a tooth's rotation on that? There should not have been any.

In regards to the front crankshaft seal, if it isn't leaking I would recommend to leave it alone. If you go in after it, there is a possibility that you may gouge a scratch on the crankshaft during the removal process. If that happens than no matter what kind of new seal you put on it, there will always be a leak.

I have first hand personal experience with this and repairing that was not fun. I tried a lot of things and in the end, the only thing that actually worked was a new crankshaft.


89 Raider - V6, Automatic, rear LSD, A/C Retrofit, Cruise Control Retrofit.
Re: Crank pulley wobble with new pulley and tight bolt - 98 Montero [Re: poolecr] #1076071
01/05/15 10:18 PM
01/05/15 10:18 PM
P
poolecr  Offline OP
Need a Spot
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 14
Palmdale, CA
Ok, Jay's new photos made me even more curious. Was able to convince the wife to go dig through my garage trash for the bag my new bolt came in. I'm gonna owe her for that one, ha.

Anyway, what I've got in there now is PN 1100A141. It looks like the correct bolt, but more like the upper, longer bolt in plh's photos than the shorter bolt on the bottom and in Jay's pics....


1998 Gen 2.5 Montero w/ winter package
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