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New (to me) 4x4 with....Issues. #1078899 09/09/15 04:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
10ring Offline OP
Need a Spot
Hello Gents, I was glad to find a solid community still working on and enjoying these little brutes.

Recently, I needed a 4x4 for light trail, beach, camping, and fishing duties, and found a 99 auto Sportage on craigslist for $1750 that seemed to fit the bill.

First thing I did was put 235/75R15 rubber on the stock rims:

[Linked Image]

It got us to and from the Texas coast at 19 mpg, but had some issues.

-Surging while trying to accelerate. The worst is accelerating between 30 and 65 mph, either almost no power at 2000 rpm or surging at 3500+ rpm. Once up to 70+ mph it settled at about 3000 rpm and was fine so long as it didn't need to downshift.

-No power. Very slow acceleration, and would lose speed quickly trying to go up any kind of hill when cruising at highway speeds.

-Rough shaking idle. Alternates between shaking like it's going to stall at ~600 rpm, or high idle at ~1400.

-My OBD reader shows:

Current Fault Log
------------------
ECU reports no current faults

Pending Fault Log
------------------
P0171: System too Lean (Bank 1)
P0301: Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
P0300: Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0303: Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
P0304: Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected
P0302: Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected

-Dripping water onto passenger's feet. It also drains onto the ground out of the drain pipe in the firewall as expected, but it seems like a lot more condensation is being drained than any car I've ever had. What comes out smells like plain water, but maybe the previous owner diluted the coolant/water mixture so much I can't smell it. Leaking heater core? No overheating issues during our trip, even in 100* Texas heat, but did start creeping up during testing to 210*. Added more 50/50 coolant/water directly to radiator and now seems to hold 188* +/-.

-The floor and base of the center console got warm enough to notice the heat against my right calf.


So far, I've only had a chance to tear into the intake and ignition, following this guide: 4x4Wire TrailTalk Forums: READ FIRST IF YOU NEED TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS

Pics so far: 1999 Kia Sportage Ignition and Intake - Album on Imgur

What I found was that the spark plug wires, coils, and plugs seemed almost new. The ignition wire harness that feeds the coils was in bad shape, with the connectors broken and mostly destroyed, but still able to hold the connection. No signs of oil leaking from the valve cover.

I replaced PCV, cleaned the throttle body, cleaned the MAF, hosed out the IAC with carb cleaner, cleaned and refinished the metal TB-Air Intake Pipe gasket, then put it all back together.

Good news is that it works exactly as it did before. Bad news is that it works exactly as it did before.

I have an ignition wire harness "http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CA09LEO?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01"

What's next?

I'll try to find a vacuum leak by spraying carb cleaner around all the hoses and gaskets, and I'm going to put a bottle of Bar's radiator stop leak in the coolant hose just before the heater core to see if that stops the leak in the passenger footwell.

Other suggestions?

Thanks!

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Re: New (to me) 4x4 with....Issues. [Re: 10ring] #1078909 09/10/15 04:40 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 326
Peabody Offline
Mudrunner
The leak on the passenger side is from the heater core under the dash. It is a common problem. Everet posted a how-to on replacing the core without having to pull the dash. The core will need to be replaced. I don't think any stop-leak product will fix it. You can check Rock Auto (online) for prices. Sometimes they have closeout parts that are a killer deal. If you can't get a new core anytime soon, you can always bypass the core with a heater hose running from the engine's flow-in to the flow-out. It's still warm in TX. You've got a few months before a heater will be desirable... I think. eek

Your ECU is on the floor board where the radiator fluid is collecting. That could be the reason for your poor performance - a wet computer. I suspect you have other problems that are more likely to be the culprit. But a wet ECU does not a happy Sporty make...

I had the P0171 code many a time. It has always been associated with a leak in the throttle body assembly between the intake manifold and the MAF. I recommend checking the rubber flex hose from the MAF housing to the metal intake tube. Look in the deep parts of the corrugations. I found gaping holes in mine caused by dry rot. I also had an issue with the gasket between the butterfly assembly and the metal tube... and the intake manifold (upper portion). I learned to keep a roll of the gray gasket material on hand so I can cut out a new gasket when needed. It's not hard to do and is much cheaper than buying the gasket alone... and not getting the right one.

An air leak as described above will kick the "system lean" code and can cause the "misfires", poor acceleration and rough idling. It's making the ECU think the fuel-air mix is off, which it tries to correct. This is all based on the downstream values generated by the O2 sensors (post burn exhaust). But because the leak is after the MAF sensor, the ECU doesn't know its extra air coming in because it's using the MAF value to estimate the air volume. The ECU is great when nothing is out of whack. But it's ability to "correct" for out-of-norm values is super-retarded, to say the least. With random misfires on all cylinders, an air leak in the intake is a prime suspect. I recommend starting there. I'm strongly suspecting the corrugated hose...

You should also pull back the carpet on the passenger floor board and see if the ECU is getting soaked or soggy. FYI - do not ever work on the ECU or hot wires with the battery connected. I did this once. Had a hot lead slip out of my hand and ground to metal for a millisecond. It toasted my ECU. A toasted ECU is not a performance enhancer. Trust me on that one.

Post an update after you poke around under the hood. I'll go nuke a bag of popcorn and wait patiently... whistle


1997 Sportage 4x4, auto-trans, Warn manual hubs, 4" UPYOURKIA front lift, TJ 106AA rear springs, 2-5/8" body lift, 31x10.50 treads, SmittyBilt SRC front and XRC rear bumper, swing-out tire mount, OBX LSD front diff, Track Finder rear locker, 5.38 R&Ps and... really crappy gas mileage! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />
Re: New (to me) 4x4 with....Issues. [Re: Peabody] #1078946 09/12/15 10:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
10ring Offline OP
Need a Spot
Thanks P.

I did the vacuum leak test with carb cleaner, and didn't seem to find any leaks, but after your post I'm going to rip that hose off and go over it with a fine tooth comb.

Re: New (to me) 4x4 with....Issues. [Re: 10ring] #1078948 09/12/15 11:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 326
Peabody Offline
Mudrunner
Found some old pics of my old hose and the fix. My problem was partially due to the vehicle having a body lift. That stretched the old air intake hose, with the dry rot being the weak point. But any normally handling of old rubber can create a similar failure. I used a series of silicone tube pieces with couplings to create a new hose assembly that wasn't under stress from the body being lifted a few inches higher. Not applicable to your scenario. But the new hose system works just as good as stock...

Bad hose:

[Linked Image]

The fix:

[Linked Image]


1997 Sportage 4x4, auto-trans, Warn manual hubs, 4" UPYOURKIA front lift, TJ 106AA rear springs, 2-5/8" body lift, 31x10.50 treads, SmittyBilt SRC front and XRC rear bumper, swing-out tire mount, OBX LSD front diff, Track Finder rear locker, 5.38 R&Ps and... really crappy gas mileage! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />
Re: New (to me) 4x4 with....Issues. [Re: Peabody] #1078949 09/12/15 11:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 326
Peabody Offline
Mudrunner
Oops... wrong "fix it" pic. Here's the right one. Note: I trimmed the section with the kink after the photo was taken. So there's no abnormal bends in the sections anymore...

[Linked Image]


1997 Sportage 4x4, auto-trans, Warn manual hubs, 4" UPYOURKIA front lift, TJ 106AA rear springs, 2-5/8" body lift, 31x10.50 treads, SmittyBilt SRC front and XRC rear bumper, swing-out tire mount, OBX LSD front diff, Track Finder rear locker, 5.38 R&Ps and... really crappy gas mileage! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />
Re: New (to me) 4x4 with....Issues. [Re: Peabody] #1078963 09/13/15 04:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
10ring Offline OP
Need a Spot
Well, the good news is that a new TPS fixed the surging while accelerating issue. She's now actually very well behaved while driving. I needed to try some easy fixes because I need it this week for dove hunting, so I through on a new TPS after seeing erratic throttle readings while watching the live OBDII data.

Still idles like crap, though. Only warm, which seems odd. When cold, she seems to idle alright at about 800rpm, but then once everything gets hot, the idle turns rough and low, like it wants to stall when parked and stopped at a light, but hasn't actually stalled since the new TPS was put on.

Thanks for the pics, P. I plan on lifting this thing, so I'm sure I'll be needing to do the same thing eventually.

Re: New (to me) 4x4 with....Issues. [Re: 10ring] #1078989 09/15/15 05:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,224
Everet Offline
Body Damage is Cool
You should really do the heater core as soon as you can. If the thing splits wide open while you are on a trip, you will be forced to fix it away from home.
19 mpg sounds low. Should be around 21-23 mpg.
Check the connections on the MAF sensor. I know that the best fix is soldering as Axe has written about it in a sticky.
Welcome to the forum and hope to hear more about your modifications and fixes as you progress.
Email me if you have any questions about the heater core or lifting it. everet@upyourkia.com
Everet


WWW.UPYOURKIA.COM White 96,4x4, man.hubs,K&N filter,3row rad, twin 16" fans, 3" body lift, 4" UPYOURKIA LIFT KIT,265/75 16 TreadWrights on DC2 wheels,140 amp alt. dual batts.
Re: New (to me) 4x4 with....Issues. [Re: Everet] #1079004 09/16/15 10:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
10ring Offline OP
Need a Spot
Originally Posted by Everet
You should really do the heater core as soon as you can. If the thing splits wide open while you are on a trip, you will be forced to fix it away from home.
19 mpg sounds low. Should be around 21-23 mpg.
Check the connections on the MAF sensor. I know that the best fix is soldering as Axe has written about it in a sticky.
Welcome to the forum and hope to hear more about your modifications and fixes as you progress.
Email me if you have any questions about the heater core or lifting it. everet@upyourkia.com
Everet


Thanks, once I get this thing running right and I know I can depend on it, I'll be contacting you for a lift kit.

Yesterday I went through the ignition system with a fine tooth comb, and every single piece from the ignition harness/pigtail down to the plugs are either verified good or brand new.

Put most of my progress in this thread: http://www.kia-forums.com/1g-1993-2002-sportage/207377-new-me-4x4-issues.html

Album of what I've done so far: http://imgur.com/a/pZxTI

Unfortunately, this is what I found when I got home from the test drive:

No Current Faults
------------------
Pending Fault Log
------------------
P0303: Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
P0300: Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0604: Internal Control Module Random Access Memory (RAM) Error
P0301: Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
P0304: Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected
P0302: Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
P0101: Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit Range/Performance Problem

It still surges, though not as bad, when accelerating, sometimes seems to have no power if I hit the gas when coming out of a turn, and intermittently idles low and rough.

Based on the black fouling on the plugs (pics in link above), it's been running rich, which I wouldn't be surprised destroyed/clogged the cat.

The only things I can think of to check now, that will allow me to have it back together and working so we can leave friday, are the ground points, ECU connections, and try to figure out if the cat is clogged.

I'm on the fence about replacing the downstream O2 sensor. It's switching the same as the upstream sensor.

I cleaned the MAF when I first got it, and watching the live data in Torque it seems to be reporting appropriate numbers.

Any other suggestions?

Re: New (to me) 4x4 with....Issues. [Re: 10ring] #1079005 09/17/15 12:08 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 326
Peabody Offline
Mudrunner
Have you replaced the fuel filter? A clogged filter will starve the engine during acceleration. That can also happen at the pick up in the gas tank. Gummed up injectors can be a problem too (they're a PIA to replace). But I don't see that being your problem. With misfires on all cylinders occurring randomly, I don't see it being a problem with the plugs and wires, either. I'd look upstream and downstream of the cylinders for the root cause (intake and exhaust). I'd also check all of the emissions related parts (EGR and all the little vacuum hoses on the parts around it). The cat might be worth looking at too, as you mentioned.

And I agree with Everet - fix the heater core at the earliest opportunity.


1997 Sportage 4x4, auto-trans, Warn manual hubs, 4" UPYOURKIA front lift, TJ 106AA rear springs, 2-5/8" body lift, 31x10.50 treads, SmittyBilt SRC front and XRC rear bumper, swing-out tire mount, OBX LSD front diff, Track Finder rear locker, 5.38 R&Ps and... really crappy gas mileage! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />
Re: New (to me) 4x4 with....Issues. [Re: Peabody] #1079015 09/18/15 03:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 9
10ring Offline OP
Need a Spot
Originally Posted by Peabody
Have you replaced the fuel filter? ......... I'd also check all of the emissions related parts (EGR and all the little vacuum hoses on the parts around it). The cat might be worth looking at too, as you mentioned.

And I agree with Everet - fix the heater core at the earliest opportunity.


Changed fuel filter. Heater core bypassed.

Does this model have an EGR? I see a regulator on the fuel rail, but no EGR. If I'm reading right, some years have one, some don't.



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