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Re: 2.6l Gen 1 Front Axle Swap with Gen 1 V6 LSD - How Too [Re: 1986powerram50] #965433
10/04/09 10:53 PM
10/04/09 10:53 PM
plh  Offline OP
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,424
Milwaukee Wisconsin
Finished! sort of. A few loose ends to tie up, like rechecking torques after a few days driving so I didn't replace the front skid plates yet.

Here is a photo of the front crossmember. The 2.6l dif mount is shown aligned to the mounting holes. The V6 mount is to the right. The V6 mount is about 3/8" wider so the holes do not align.

[Linked Image]

To modify the 2.6l mount I used a utility knife and cut the upper rubber isolator as close to in-half as I could estimate. Tough stuff. I then took the top half and placed it washer side down (appears fused) on top of the lower isolator. I found another large washer and placed it on the remaining cut half in contact with the dif. casting. I bolted the mount to the cross member, inserted the bolt sandwich in the new hole drilled in the dif. used a bottle jack and prybar to align the crossmember to the frame holes.

Here is a close-up of the mount installed:

[Linked Image]

Nothing else out of the ordinary torquing up the right side, so the finish went smoothly.

[Linked Image]

No offroading test until next weekend <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The on-road went OK!


  • 88 Raider: 5 spd, 4.62 LSD F & R, T/L, OME Rear Springs, KYB G/A, 33/12.5/15" MTZs, PLH LOs, Justice Bumper, Dual Bouncies, 4D56T in -running soon!
  • 1992 RS M/T
  • 1993 SR
  • 2005 Montero LTD
  • Gen 1 - PARTS FOR SALE
  • http://www.tuffpans.com
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Re: 2.6l Gen 1 Front Axle Swap with Gen 1 V6 LSD - How Too [Re: MartySoCal] #965434
10/04/09 11:02 PM
10/04/09 11:02 PM
plh  Offline OP
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,424
Milwaukee Wisconsin
Quote
So the V6 front driveshaft fits the 4 cyl. t-case with no mods?


It did for me, was a little worried about this.

Quote
Did that V6 25-1/4" shaft come from the same manual trans V6 Raider as the diff?


Yes

Quote
Is the 4 cyl a stick or auto?


Stick

Quote
Would an auto trans V6 front driveshaft be longer? Would the early 3 speed 904 auto trans 4 cylinder shaft be shorter than the stick one?


I have no idea on these questions.

Quote
Does anyone know if the Gen 2 reverse cut front diff assy. will fit the Gen 1 4 cyl. frame in a similar manner? Would the center axle disconnect be difficult to remove? 4.88's seem to be easier to find in Gen 2's and reverse cut is stronger in a front diff application. (I'm seeing alot of these in the yards from the clunker program <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> )

What about the Montero Sport front diff? Any advantage to that one? (Alot of these showing up, too)


Great questions! I barely know the Gen 1's not much knowledge at all on the Gen 2 and later.

-Paul


  • 88 Raider: 5 spd, 4.62 LSD F & R, T/L, OME Rear Springs, KYB G/A, 33/12.5/15" MTZs, PLH LOs, Justice Bumper, Dual Bouncies, 4D56T in -running soon!
  • 1992 RS M/T
  • 1993 SR
  • 2005 Montero LTD
  • Gen 1 - PARTS FOR SALE
  • http://www.tuffpans.com
Re: 2.6l Gen 1 Front Axle Swap with Gen 1 V6 LSD - How Too [Re: plh] #965435
10/04/09 11:17 PM
10/04/09 11:17 PM
0778drz110  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,178
SARASOTA, FL
Quote
On to the driveshaft - working my way across the vehicle. I didn't see this documented anywhere. The 2.6l driveshaft is about 1" too long. It didn't bolt up - just too long. Measuring up the V6 dif quickly from the pinion flange to the cover it is almost 1" longer than the 2.6l dif.

This is the 2.6l shaft measuring 26 1/4" U Joint center to center:

[Linked Image]

This is the V6 shaft measuring 25 1/4" U Joint center to center:
[Linked Image]

Glad I still had the V6 shaft. Please note that pulling the driveshaft from the transfercase is a quick way to evacuate the lube. I have Redline all over my driveway now <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


The one I pulled came from a '91 V6 auto, but the driveshaft is 27 1/4" long ujoint center to center. I guess I'll have to get it shortened.


'88 Raider, 33" swampers, 2" body lift, 10K winch
Re: 2.6l Gen 1 Front Axle Swap with Gen 1 V6 LSD - How Too [Re: 0778drz110] #965436
09/04/10 02:12 AM
09/04/10 02:12 AM
plh  Offline OP
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,424
Milwaukee Wisconsin
Well its been almost a year so here is a review:
For sure the install is complete.
Driving impressions: On the road in snow and ice (yup Wisconsin) I only lock 1 hub as it is very squirly and pulls hard right on slippery surfaces. Locking 1 hubs is not much different than driving with the OE open differential. Off road - jeez real 4 WD - what can I say "unstoppable!?" and with the Aisins also installed I don't worry about the hubs becoming unlocked. The LSD unit is quite tight as I'm using Mobile 1 without LSD additive so we get lots of 4 wheel grip. Would I go this route again? In an instant.
I found the '88 Starion LSD on car-part. Looks like $150 will get you one there today.


  • 88 Raider: 5 spd, 4.62 LSD F & R, T/L, OME Rear Springs, KYB G/A, 33/12.5/15" MTZs, PLH LOs, Justice Bumper, Dual Bouncies, 4D56T in -running soon!
  • 1992 RS M/T
  • 1993 SR
  • 2005 Montero LTD
  • Gen 1 - PARTS FOR SALE
  • http://www.tuffpans.com
Re: 2.6l Gen 1 Front Axle Swap with Gen 1 V6 LSD - How Too [Re: plh] #965437
09/04/10 03:02 PM
09/04/10 03:02 PM
M
MartySoCal  Offline
Mudrunner
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 306
SoCal *****
Would a rear 4 cyl. limited slip differential fit the V6 front diff housing if you use the 28 spline shafts? They seem to be easier to find in the yards.

Re: 2.6l Gen 1 Front Axle Swap with Gen 1 V6 LSD - How Too [Re: MartySoCal] #965438
09/04/10 05:23 PM
09/04/10 05:23 PM
K
Kevin C  Offline
Trail Leader
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,131
Portland OR ****
No, unfortunately the 4 cyl rear LSD not only has the wrong splines, its too wide. And if it did fit we would we all have been really silly spending all that effort to track down Starion diffs. So even if it did... we could never admit it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Seriously , they do use the same bearings, and I had considered trying to cut down a spare 4 cyl rear Torsen diff to fit. I know the torsen case can take it, but then there is the axle issue. That's why I went with the LSD unit up front.

I have posted this before, but it seems to get forgotten. The Starion LSD can be modded for varying degrees of preload and lockup.

There is room to add more disks. For winter use I removed the preload springs and added more friction disks. When on the throttle the torque reaction of the diff applies the clutches. With the extra friction disks the lock up rate is improved. So you start out with less friction but as you apply power you end up with more.

This wont help very much if one tire is on ice and the other has traction. Until you press on the brakes and add some friction load, then you get good lockup. Combine this with a read LSD and I feel you get a pretty decent setup for bad weather.

This assumes you have an auto or three feet.

I tested mine in the snow a few years ago and it worked really well. I did find the back end felt a bit squirrely if I tried to drive above 40 mph on slick snowy roads. One of the highways I was on has large wear grooves and the back end felt like it wanted to come around drivne at a good clip in the snow. I'm not sure it the front LSD cause this or not. It felt like it was something to do with the rear Torsen that I have, and or my really beat up leaf springs.

I chose just to keep my speed to 30 MPH.

The back end of my Raider feels a bit squirrely in 2wd in the wet... My rear springs have 345,000 miles on them and are a little twisted from the PO going into a ditch.

Its on the list of stuff to fix.

Kevin


87 Turbo Intercooled Raider, roller cam, torsen rear diff, LSD front diff, lockup auto with modified converter, V6 brakes, low transfer case gears...
Re: 2.6l Gen 1 Front Axle Swap with Gen 1 V6 LSD - How Too [Re: Kevin C] #965439
09/04/10 07:19 PM
09/04/10 07:19 PM
FrankR  Offline
Web Wheeler
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,238
Columbia, SC ****
Quote
The back end of my Raider feels a bit squirrely in 2wd in the wet...


So does mine, when I turn a wet corner from a dead stop first thing in the morning..... the rear tires will lose traction and want to swap ends. It's probably the LSD not releasing when cold, but I suspect it'll feel the same in hard snow or ice. The squirreliness is likely worse in the SWB.

When I lived in CT, I used to laugh at the commuter yuppies trying to drive '80s Cherokees uphill on ice.... most ended up in the ditch after some nice spin-outs. They never understood why their go-anywhere 4WD super-macho machines couldn't negotiate the hills. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

I'm very interested in testing my rear LSD in some ice and snow this winter to see how bad it is.

Frank


'89 [color:"white"]G-Raider[color:"white"] [color:"black"]Supercharged 3.0L, MegaSquirt 2, lockup A/T, 2.5" exhaust, 172k, Cibie H4s/Oscar SCs, Hella Micro DE fogs, Cobra CB, Superwinch hubs, LSD rear/Aussie Locker front, Bilsteins, Lifeline AGM, Rust-Oleum
Re: 2.6l Gen 1 Front Axle Swap with Gen 1 V6 LSD - How Too [Re: FrankR] #965440
09/04/10 09:14 PM
09/04/10 09:14 PM
K
Kevin C  Offline
Trail Leader
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,131
Portland OR ****
I have used a clutch type LSD in snow and remember the feel... This is a bit different.

web page

Not totally sure on mine.. I just know it not like the last Raider.
Kevin


87 Turbo Intercooled Raider, roller cam, torsen rear diff, LSD front diff, lockup auto with modified converter, V6 brakes, low transfer case gears...
Re: 2.6l Gen 1 Front Axle Swap with Gen 1 V6 LSD - How Too [Re: Kevin C] #965441
09/04/10 09:36 PM
09/04/10 09:36 PM
M
MartySoCal  Offline
Mudrunner
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 306
SoCal *****
I think adding a Aussie Locker would work better for my buddy, as we use his rig in the desert and don't have to worry about snow/ice like you guys back in the snow belt! It should be easier to find than a good used Starion diff, too!

When I aded a limited slip to his rear axle, I split the carrier and bead blasted the discs/clutches. It's very tight. Basically, it's a copy of the Dana Powerlock diff.

One question I had about a year ago when this thread was new was whether or not the Gen 2 disconnecting, reverse rotation diff assembly could be used, and whether or not the disconnect can be removed from the housing by, for example, swapping in a solid intermediate shaft and blocking off the disconnect mechanism. (like the Jeep XJ people do)

There's a '95 3.5l SR with a locking rear axle, rear disc brakes, and a front, reverse rotation 4.89 ratio disconnecting diff in the local yard that might make for a good donor vehicle!

Re: 2.6l Gen 1 Front Axle Swap with Gen 1 V6 LSD - How Too [Re: plh] #1079927
02/01/16 08:49 AM
02/01/16 08:49 AM
Maciek  Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 26
Seattle, WA
Bump cause i'm lsd jelly. Seriously though, how can I find the part numbers for things like those brass thrust washers, or the spindle seals, or the locking hub bolts?
thanks,
~M

Last edited by Maciek; 02/01/16 08:51 AM.

'88 Raider - 250+K | 2.6L G54B; no balance shafts, non jet-valve head, ARP head studs| Weber 32/36 DFEV | Pacesetter 4>1 | 2 1/4" magnaflow | 32" BFG A/T | 2" bar crank & add-a-leaf | +2 SkyJackers | bumpstop del | Optima Yellow-Top | Curt GenII receiver
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