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Re: Intermittent No-Start & Stalling [Re: Casey] #1104744
12/17/18 02:07 PM
12/17/18 02:07 PM
C
chadzeilenga  Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 69
Charlotte, NC USA
Hey Casey,
I just started having the same issue with my 89 LWB 3.0L. I recently replaced the engine and have been chasing a few gremlins with this being one of them. Today, I took kids to school and while on the way it shutoff completely and I coasted to the side of road. Checked for loose connections and then it finally started and ran fine after that. I'll try and order the S745 connector and see if that helps.


Chad Zeilenga
1989 Gen 1 Montero
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Re: Intermittent No-Start & Stalling [Re: Casey] #1104751
12/19/18 02:59 AM
12/19/18 02:59 AM
C
Casey  Offline OP
Need a Spot
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Denver, CO
I spliced in the new ignition coil module harness this morning. However, the same symptoms seem to still exist -- the truck ran fine most of the day as I test drove in the neighborhood, but on the most recent test drive it died as I was pulling onto the street. Cranked a few times with no fire, then I pushed it to the curb, tried one more time and it fired up. Then drove the neighborhood for 10 minutes with several start/stops and no further issues.

I received some advice while I was waiting out one of the no-start episodes in the O'Reillys parking lot yesterday (pre-ICM connector replacement). A part-time mechanic seemed pretty convinced the issue was the fuel pump as he couldn't hear it prime when the key was in the "on" position. We sprayed some starter fluid and got it to fire (then stall again). I know fuel pumps can go in and out as they near their death, but this has been happening for nearly 6 months now and I would have assumed a fuel-pump related stall would likely be accompanied by some sputtering -- or that if the fuel pump was going to fail, it would have failed completely by now.

Anybody have thoughts on the next step, keep troubleshooting wires/connections under the assumption that a short is causing the fuel pump to go in and out, or time to consider a new pump? Thanks.


Casey
1989 Montero LS, 3.0 V6, 140k miles
Re: Intermittent No-Start & Stalling [Re: Casey] #1104753
12/19/18 05:46 PM
12/19/18 05:46 PM
C
chadzeilenga  Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 69
Charlotte, NC USA
Hey Casey,
I haven't yet received my ignition coil harness from RockAuto, but I did ensure that the existing clip was securely engaged and cleaned out any debris from it and bent the 3 tabs on the ICM down slightly to increase engagement with the plug. I did this on MON night and afterwards, started up and idled great. I drove around the neighborhood getting up to full operating temp and no issue.

Tuesday, drove to work (10mi) and had no issue, on my way home i was starting to get some stumbling in my accelerations while I was close to home. Are you experiencing this at all, or do you just suddenly die?

I arrived home, shut vehicle off and then it wouldn't restart. It would crank strong and sometimes fire, but die quickly. Restarted fine later in night and this morning with no issue, but didn't feel comfortable driving until I sort out source of issue.

I didn't have this issue when I started the engine replacement as a result of a failed headgasket ~2mo ago. My assumption was that something was loose at the engine, but will start working through FSM troubleshooting for the MPI system as based on the stumbling behavior I feel that it is fuel related.


Chad Zeilenga
1989 Gen 1 Montero
Re: Intermittent No-Start & Stalling [Re: chadzeilenga] #1104756
12/20/18 03:03 AM
12/20/18 03:03 AM
C
Casey  Offline OP
Need a Spot
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Denver, CO
Chad -- My symptoms seem slightly different. I never experience any sputtering or warnings pre-stall, it's black or white, running strong or dead. After a period of 5-45 mins where it will crank strong but not fire, it will typically then start up and run just fine for a while. It doesn't typically start and die repeatedly during any given session.


Casey
1989 Montero LS, 3.0 V6, 140k miles
Re: Intermittent No-Start & Stalling [Re: Casey] #1104763
12/27/18 06:30 AM
12/27/18 06:30 AM
C
chadzeilenga  Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 69
Charlotte, NC USA
Yea, I think you are right. I’m focusing on the fuel items and ruling out the simple stuff per FSM right now.


Chad Zeilenga
1989 Gen 1 Montero
Re: Intermittent No-Start & Stalling [Re: MarkG] #1104865
02/19/19 11:29 PM
02/19/19 11:29 PM
C
Casey  Offline OP
Need a Spot
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Denver, CO
Getting back after this issue.

I've attempted the following:
- replaced ECU (tried two different units) with no change in symptoms, reinstalled original unit
- replaced Ignition Coil, IC Module, and spliced in a new ICM harness with no change in symptoms, new units/wire remain installed
- replaced Fuel Pump Relay with no change in symptoms, reinstalled original relay
- not entirely related, but replaced plugs and wires as they were overdue

No dash lights ever illuminate while the vehicle is operating, but all lights come on upon a stall (with the key still in the On position). No stored codes in the ECU.

I saw in a prior thread that a faulty Distributor can tell the ECU to turn off the fuel pump. Does anybody have any additional insight on this, and whether it may apply in this case, i.e. whether it can go in and out?
http://4x4wire.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/425297.html

I can't find much color on the MPI Control Unit or Fuel Pump Drive Terminal, part numbers, exactly what they do, whether they could cause the fuel pump to intermittently lose power. Any thoughts on these components?

Originally Posted by MarkG
Fuel -
On a "No Start", do you have much of a raw fuel smell at the tail pipe?
When turning the ignition "on", but before "start", can you hear the fuel pump relay click at the passenger side kick panel? What about the fuel pump?


I don't notice a fuel smell upon the no-start.
At all times, when I turn the key to the On position, the fuel pump relay clicks, then clicks off several seconds after putting the key to the Off position and/or removal. When the vehicle is running, there is a clear hum from the fuel pump. When it is actively "not-starting", the hum is not present while the key is in the On position. When I go to pick it up from around the block later, I'll confirm whether the hum is present with the key in the On position prior to the vehicle starting.

Thanks again for any and all commentary.


Casey
1989 Montero LS, 3.0 V6, 140k miles
Re: Intermittent No-Start & Stalling [Re: Casey] #1104866
02/20/19 12:49 AM
02/20/19 12:49 AM
C
Casey  Offline OP
Need a Spot
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 9
Denver, CO
Originally Posted by Casey
At all times, when I turn the key to the On position, the fuel pump relay clicks, then clicks off several seconds after putting the key to the Off position and/or removal. When the vehicle is running, there is a clear hum from the fuel pump. When it is actively "not-starting", the hum is not present while the key is in the On position. When I go to pick it up from around the block later, I'll confirm whether the hum is present with the key in the On position prior to the vehicle starting.

Confirmed, the fuel pump "buzz" never occurs while the key is in the On position, it's only audible when the vehicle is running.

Today is another example of it starting up an hour+ after previously stalling while driving and refusing to re-start, without any tinkering or potential fixes.

Last edited by Casey; 02/20/19 12:50 AM.

Casey
1989 Montero LS, 3.0 V6, 140k miles
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