Extreme Terrain
4x4Wire Trail Talk Forums: Jeep, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Pajero, Isuzu, Kia, 4WD, 4x4, SUV, Off-Road and OutdoorWire Forums

Search E-Bay for your parts:
Search Amazon for your parts:

Search

Recent Posts on TrailTalk
1995 montero LS for sale in North Carolina
by jasonjj. 05/23/18 01:58 AM
89 LWB Temp Gage Dead
by rxinhed. 05/22/18 04:50 AM
suzi the psychic
by rascott. 05/22/18 04:23 AM
1989 LWB Check Engine Light #22 Crank Angle Sensor
by chadzeilenga. 05/20/18 04:34 AM
Intermittent Sportage Problem
by Squatchout. 05/16/18 04:22 AM
Custom shift knobs
by dadrab. 05/13/18 12:14 AM
1999 Montero Sport Limited 3.5L crawler build
by ES_97Sport. 05/11/18 12:33 AM
Support 4x4Wire
New Topics on TrailTalk
89 LWB Temp Gage Dead
by chadzeilenga. 05/20/18 04:39 AM
1989 LWB Check Engine Light #22 Crank Angle Sensor
by chadzeilenga. 05/19/18 03:57 AM
Custom shift knobs
by dadrab. 05/13/18 12:14 AM
Gen 1: Desperation leads to desperate decision
by EastCoaster. 05/08/18 03:02 PM
Intermittent Sportage Problem
by Squatchout. 05/06/18 09:44 PM
4x4 Gallery
Flex test after suspension mods
Clearance check!
Testing the new Kenda Klever 31x10.50x15
My '88
4x4Wire YJ
More News on the 'Wire

4x4Voice
4x4Wire
MUIRNet-News
OutdoorWire
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 142 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums37
Topics137,848
Posts1,079,418
Members14,765
Most Online581
Apr 3rd, 2017
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Mods: Driveshaft vibration Lift.... SWB #262815
01/25/01 12:13 AM
01/25/01 12:13 AM
lee_raider  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,956
pending
When I put in an "Add-a-leaf" in the rear of my '88 2 door, I also noticed more vibration in the drivetrain. But mine is not at any specific RPM. It is most notable when going over dips in the road (especially while accelerating), when the drivetrain flexes. <BR>U-joints were my first idea too. I replaced them all, but it made no difference.<BR>I even get a slight vibration while sitting at a stop light with the auto tranny in drive.<BR>I have tried to isolate the cause of this, but with no luck so far.<BR>Guess I'll just have to live with it. It has been going on for almost a year now, and doesn't seem to be getting any worse. So....until I get it figured out, I am not too concerned about for now.<P>------------------<BR>'88 Raider<BR>31x10.5 rubbers<BR>Add-a-Leaf rear<BR>Torsion bars cranked up<BR>Weber carb<BR>Gas tank, rockers, doors, bumpers, and quarter panels all "trail modified" by rocks and trees.


Two MRI's and a CAT scan....it's confirmed. I'm just not right in the head.
Re: Mods: Driveshaft vibration Lift.... SWB #262816
01/25/01 12:56 AM
01/25/01 12:56 AM
Lloyd Swartz  Offline
Web Wheeler
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,160
Albuquerque NM US
Lee, your vibration is exhaust or drivetrane mount related. My driveshaft was lenghtened NOT for the lift, and I would not bother just for the lift. It was done BECUASE I dissposed of the rear swaybar, added the lift AND most importantly added 3.25" longer shocks. I have a VAST amount of wheel travel now and noticed one day that the amount of splines on the slip yoke still in the t/case at full droop was leaving alot to be desired so I added about 1", under reccomendation of a driveshaft shop. I had one slightly worn ujoint replaced, the shaft balanced all for 135.00, a bargain I think. If anyone adds the same long travel rear mods I did I would consider the driveshaft lengthen and the longer brake line. I never had a problem in a year or so, but did not want to chance it. Additionally anyone with an older Montero and these mods must have there trailing arms fish plated.


1996 SR From the Area 51 Skunk Works. 37"BFG Tires, 5" lift, Rock Track 4:1 Case, Tom Woods Drive Shafts, Oasis Air, Front ARB, lifted gas tank, T-max winch and lots of stuff that cost too much.
Re: Mods: Driveshaft vibration Lift.... SWB #262817
01/25/01 01:20 AM
01/25/01 01:20 AM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

ok then,<BR>we get alot of driveshafts made up for work so if i got them to balane it do you think it would make a differance. I checked the u joints and there like new.

Re: Mods: Driveshaft vibration Lift.... SWB #262818
01/25/01 06:08 AM
01/25/01 06:08 AM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

has anyone done anything with adjustable panhard rods?

Re: Mods: Driveshaft vibration Lift.... SWB #262819
01/25/01 05:54 PM
01/25/01 05:54 PM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

OG,<P>Here's a quick primer for you, and the others with lifted rear vibrations.<P>First, the vibration is torque related and is caused by the joints. So when you put it in 4WD there was not enough torque going to the rear to cause the effect I'll explain below. I'm glad to hear your vibration went away with your bros in the car because that pretty much confirms what we were thinking. Good news.<P>A drive shaft joint that is running at an angle creates what I believe is called axial force as the torque applied wants to straighten the shafts. When it can't a little flexing of the shafts occurs and some vibration. The higher the torque or the greater the angle, the greater this force and subsequent vibration are.<P>With a drive shaft that has 2 joints the problem is compounded if the joints are at two different angles (ie one is at a 10 degree flex, the other at a 5 degree flex). If memory serves, having two shafts at the same angle actually helps cancel out the vibration. From your description, the front joint is at a different angle than the other and it was probably made MORE different by the lift. So far everything falls into place.<P>The good news is that there are several solutions and they're not too expensive. The best solution would be installing what is called a double cardan joint in place of one of your current CV joints. Due to their construction, these joints are not subject to the angle vibrations described above - they were specifically designed with a "double CV joint" that creates the 'same angle' effect. Since this *might* require work on your driveshaft (shortening, welding), it could be best to simply buy a custom driveshaft with such a joint on it from a price perspective. Now that I think of it, though, perhaps the added 3/4 inch of the double cardan's length might be a good thing and complement the lift perfectly since you would need more shaft anyhow. Hmm. This might be the perfect thing for you.<P>The other possibility is that a custom driveshaft that is beefier and uses beefier conventional joints would solve your problem. They do make conventional joints that are more tolerant to the angle mismatch described above.<P>So, the double cardan joint would be my first suggestion as the beefier shaft with conventional joints simply better resists the forces, where the cardan joint eliminates them. Adding the cardan would be simple for you to do as it may be a bolt on item and you just get the recommended one off the shelf (check to see if one of your joints can be completely removed with bolts). If this didn't do it, you'll simply move to the next level of having a custom shaft made and hand them the cardan joint you've already bought to use in their shaft. Then you can still drive with your old joint in place while they build it. Again this is a bolt on item when they're done - no pricey installation.<P>As to balancing, I would be surprised if it would have any effect at all. This is based on the fact that you didn't have the vibration before the lift. If it were out of balance you'd have noticed then. My suggestion to have any new shaft balanced was simply because once the shaft is on someone's bench it's cheap to do and will make it run even smoother and lengthen the life of every seal and bushing it touches. Also, since the vibration went away with your beef aboard it's clear the source is the CV angles, not a balance issue.<P>That yours occurs at certain RPM's may simply coincide with the torque curve of your engine rising and falling through the range with different gears that generate enough torque to make it happen. Also means you have a mild case as severe cases vibrate at almost all operating conditions.<P>Sorry I wasn't on the board yesterday - was at Isuzu HQ for work. Got a good look at their new Axiom SUV.<BR><P>------------------<BR>DougM<P>1999 Monty, rear locker, muddies, Hellas, rear <BR>suspension air bags, <BR>3-way shocks, Hella twin <BR>beam backup light, 2 <BR>broken crap original <BR>mudflaps, Bosch rear foglamp.<P>1993 FZJ80, Hellas, front <BR>and rear lockers, <BR>muddies, rear suspension <BR>airbags, Hella twin beam <BR>backup light, Bosch rear foglamp

Re: Mods: Driveshaft vibration Lift.... SWB #262820
01/26/01 06:09 AM
01/26/01 06:09 AM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

DougM,<P>Any suggestions about where we should go to get a cardan joint? I'm getting some torque-related vibration that goes away when my brother sits in back.<P>------------------<BR>Jay<BR>89 4dr Montero<BR>http://www.geocities.com/transalper/

Re: Mods: Driveshaft vibration Lift.... SWB #262821
01/25/01 11:53 PM
01/25/01 11:53 PM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

TA,<P>If you're not lifted, it may simply be you have worn CV joints back there. Check them for play. CV joints are relatively cheap.<P>As for a double cardan joint source, Tom Woods (site sponsor whose site can be accessed at the bottom of this page) is reputed to be one of the very best. They do anything with driveshafts, but I am not sure if it's worth it for the non-US guys from a shipping standpoint.<P>------------------<BR>DougM<P>1999 Monty, rear locker, muddies, Hellas, rear <BR>suspension air bags, <BR>3-way shocks, Hella twin <BR>beam backup light, 2 <BR>broken crap original <BR>mudflaps, Bosch rear foglamp.<P>1993 FZJ80, Hellas, front <BR>and rear lockers, <BR>muddies, rear suspension <BR>airbags, Hella twin beam <BR>backup light, Bosch rear foglamp

Re: Mods: Driveshaft vibration Lift.... SWB #262822
01/28/01 05:30 PM
01/28/01 05:30 PM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

Doug,<P> Us guys with SWB's have standard U-joints. I was wondering if we did a lift if we would benefit from a CV joint instead of a U-joint. Kinda curious if I would get any serious binding if I stuck with U-joints or would the extra length of a CV would allow for travel.

Re: Mods: Driveshaft vibration Lift.... SWB #262823
01/29/01 06:03 AM
01/29/01 06:03 AM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

Gord,<P>I'd guess the CV joint would be capable of more extreme angles, but I don't know if strength or availability would be an issue vs a universal (cardan) style, or the double cardan style I suggested above for the vibration problem. I'd contact Tom Woods on the link below (ad at bottom) to get their input. They're the experts at this sort of thing. Tell him what you have, what you expect out of the vehicle in the future, and what you're willing to give up to get it and he'll probably have some excellent thoughts.<P>I think the answer to your question hinges heavily on how much of a lift you're planning, what rear suspension travel you expect, etc. The actual anticipated shaft angles would be the key for Messrs. Woods and I wonder if they'd have much experience with our vehicles. He probably knows max J@@p angles in various configurations off the top of his head, but you'd have to help him with your rig as the angle of the dangle is the whole ball game when it comes to shaft joints... Also, if you're contemplating any HP increase this should be mentioned as it would change his suggestion going from a stock 4cyl to a 4.3 swap - heh...<P>------------------<BR>DougM<P>1999 Monty, rear locker, muddies, Hellas, rear <BR>suspension air bags, <BR>3-way shocks, Hella twin <BR>beam backup light, 2 <BR>broken crap original <BR>mudflaps, Bosch rear foglamp.<P>1993 FZJ80, Hellas, front <BR>and rear lockers, <BR>muddies, rear suspension <BR>airbags, Hella twin beam <BR>backup light, Bosch rear foglamp

Re: Mods: Driveshaft vibration Lift.... SWB #262824
01/28/01 09:51 PM
01/28/01 09:51 PM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

Mr. Miller,<P> Thanks for the dirt. After a little research from some past threads on the Isuzu and Toyota boards I have one more question. <P> Why do fish breathe under water? [Linked Image]<P>No really,<P> I was wondering if it is at all worth the effort to even change the lift. I mean some of the guys spend big bucks on mods for their IFS wagons. A set of shafts for the front drive "axles" made from chromoly (tange prestige?) with Porsche 930 CV's worth around 1500 bones (US). I did some inquiries earlier to places and the responses were similar. I could save money if I left it alone. Some guys from the Zu board had lifts made in Mountain Home Idaho and they paid over 3 grand for the work but they get 8 inches of travel or better from their suspension. I am not sure if they refered the measurement from the center of travel or if it was the full movement of the suspension. What do you think?

Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Macka, Mudraider, off-roader, PajEvo, rxinhed 

OutdoorWire Websites

OutdoorWire

OutdoorWire

Portal page for OutdoorWire Access and Landuse Central Read More
4x4Voice

4x4Voice

California off road recreation news and information Read More
MUIRNet News

MUIRNet News

News and information about issues affecting outdoor recreation Read More
4x4Wire

4x4Wire

Off road recreation and 4x4 Technical news and information Read More
TrailTalk

TrailTalk

4x4Wire TrailTalk Forums for a variety of 4x4 tech information Read More

4x4Wire Tech Section

Jeep 4x4 Tech

Jeep 4x4 Tech

Jeep Tech from JeepWire - Mods, Maintenance, Tech and more... Read More
Isuzu 4x4 Tech

Isuzu 4x4 Tech

Isuzu Tech from 4x4Wire - Mods, Maintenance, Tech and more... Read More






4x4Wire Social:

| 4x4Wire on FaceBook | Google+4x4Wire on Google+|


OutdoorWire, 4x4Wire, JeepWire, TrailTalk, MUIRNet-News, and 4x4Voice are all trademarks and publications of OutdoorWire, Inc. and MUIRNet Consulting.
Copyright (c) 1999-2017 OutdoorWire, Inc and MUIRNet Consulting - All Rights Reserved, no part of this publication may be reproduced in any form without express written permission
You may link freely to this site, but no further use is allowed without the express written permission of the owner of this material.
All corporate trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

Page Time: 0.010s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 1.0606 MB (Peak: 1.1932 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2018-05-23 07:03:28 UTC