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Re: The TURBO CONVERSION Bible article project post [Re: fasteddy] #451145
10/29/04 07:02 AM
10/29/04 07:02 AM
87Montero  Offline
Trail Leader
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,690
Greenville, SC ***
so that means that both pins 2 and 11 can be wired together?


1999 Mitsu Montero - Crappy Weather
1992 Isuzu Pickup - Zombie Apocalypse
2008 Saturn Sky Redline - Nice Weather
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Re: The TURBO CONVERSION Bible article project post [Re: 87Montero] #451146
10/30/04 10:40 PM
10/30/04 10:40 PM
fasteddy  Offline OP
Web Wheeler
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
Helen , GA *****
I had #2 as grounded.

Yes, the two black/yellow wires can come from the same switched 12v source.


Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: The TURBO CONVERSION Bible article project post [Re: fasteddy] #451147
11/05/04 07:07 PM
11/05/04 07:07 PM
K
Kevin C  Offline
Trail Leader
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,131
Portland OR ****
[Linked Image]

Connections to the ECU for a 88-89 Starion.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


The third picture con2.jpg has the spark box connector at the bottom center of the picture.

Dist type: It must be a turbo dist. The non turbo units have an igniter built in and are not compatible. the turbo has only a pickup coil and where the igniter goes is empty.

Power to the coil: You need to have 12 volts direct to the coils hot side. I got mine from the original carb motors ignition feed.

There will be two wires for the ignition from the original harness (these stayed even after you removed the original carb engine harness). One of these wires is 12 volts when in the run position. The other is 12 volts when the key is in the cranking position. Connect both of these to the positive terminal on the coil.

The factory turbo spark box will ground the negative terminal on the coil. When a spark is called for it will disconnect this ground and you will get a spark as the magnetic field in the coil collapses.

I am assuming you tested two coils and you don’t have a bad coil or coil wire.

Next on my list is power and ground for the spark box.

The box has a 10 pin connector. Look at the pin side of the connector with the retaining clip facing upwards. On the top row second wire from the left (1.25 mm black wire) is ground. Verify this with an ohmmeter between the pin and the body of the vehicle.

Verify the motor is grounded to the body as well.

The top right wire goes to ground as well (Black with a yellow stripe). This same wire connects to pin 58 on the ECU.

Power to the spark unit comes from the ECI control relay.
This wire is in the bottom row of the connector in the center position (red 1.25 mm). This wire must have power during cranking and when in the run position. This same wire goes to pin 51 on the ecu for ecu power.

Next on the list is the connection to the coil. There are a number of connections to the coil. One is a blue white wire (bottom row second from the left). This connects the negative terminal of the coil.

Also connector to the negative side of the coil is the tach wire that goes into the original wiring harness.

Make sure the fuel injection harness is grounded near the spark box. Look for a large lug with a large and a smaller black wire going to it. Make sure it has a good connection to the body.


Connections!

Connections you need to make the system work:

You will notice a number of large black squares. Those are the ground points (1,2, 5, 8, 9,11).

System power:

You need power connected to four wires.

1: At the ignition switch to the wire labeled 2-BY (black wire with a yellow stripe). This wire needs to get voltage only in the cranking position.
2: The ON wire again at the ignition switch labeled 3-BW (black wire with a white stripe). This wire needs power in the cranking position and when running. I can post the connections to the ignition switch for a 87 Raider a bit later.
3: The next wire is the power to the fuel pump relay the wire is a 1.25 mm black wire to the battery (connector A34)
4: The last wire is the ECU’s constant power wire. It is also connected through connector A34 (3-W, white wire). This guy needs a small fuse and constant power from the battery. This keeps the memory working when you shut the car off the ECU remembers what tuning it learned when driving around.

That is all the EFI power the system needs to work.


You still need power to the + side of the ignition coil.

You can power the ignition coil from either the Starion harness or the Montero’s original harness. I like using the power wire from the Montero harness.

Remember you need to see +12v at the positive side of the coil during cranking and running.

The negative side should be held low and go high to produce a spark.

Kevin

Last edited by Kevin C; 11/05/04 07:13 PM.
Re: The TURBO CONVERSION Bible article project post [Re: Kevin C] #451148
12/07/04 05:30 AM
12/07/04 05:30 AM
K
Kevin C  Offline
Trail Leader
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,131
Portland OR ****
[Linked Image]

You can use the stock converter for a down pipe or get a custom made one. I had been running an old Starion converter that had long ago lost its guts.

I found a source for a 16 gauge 304 ss mandrel bend for $30 with a 80º angle that fits pretty well. I also bought a couple of 1/2" thick flanges from Roadrace engineering and a SS flex pipe on E bay for $20. I used the factory turbo flange but ported it.

Parts source

By using the factory turbo flange i can run the pulse air system (SAS) for emmisions and it mounts the o2 sensor. I used 308 filler wire and a tri mix gas on my mig for the SS welds. Getting good looking welds was a challenge. Stainless does not weld as easily as mild steel.

The starion converter will get you on the road but the custom down pipe gets you a faster spoolup and more hp. It also saves 4 lbs and the access to the flange bolts is a lot better than with the starion part.

[Linked Image] I turned the flanges in the lath to make a thinner section to weld to. I machined the other sides of the flanges in a lathe and they are flat enough that I dont need a gasket to get a good seal.


[Linked Image]

Image of the stock housing after porting.

The pipe bend is an 80º angle. Roadrace says its a 72º angle but dont believe them. Either way it fits better than
a 90º bend.

Kevin C

Re: The TURBO CONVERSION Bible article project post [Re: Kevin C] #451149
01/12/05 04:25 PM
01/12/05 04:25 PM
MontyMcV  Offline
Trail Leader
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,340
Cleve-burg OH USA
Re: No Spark Problem

While working on figuring out [new] my no spark problem, I found this info on the StarQuestClub.com site. Much of it has been posted to my [current] "Need Help" thread (thanks to all), but there is also some new stuff too. Thought I'd add it to here...

[color:"red"] I just went through this myself on an 88 Starion. Since you have power to the coil, you should check the power to the igniter (knock) box that sits on the wheel well behind the coil. It's on a different circuit than the coil. The red wire should have 12 volts. If it does, and you have no spark, it could be your ignitor box or the distributor. Put a voltmeter across the magnetic pickup leads at the ignitor connector from the distributor (b, w), and see that you're getting a trigger voltage when you crank the engine. If you don't, distributor is bad. If you do, ignitor is probably bad.

If you don't have 12 volts, then check the orange fusible link first. If the fusible link is okay, then check the red wire at both the MAF and Wastegate solenoid for 12 volts. If all three are dead, then the whole ignition circuit is dead and the next item to check is the ECI solenoid relay next to the ECI computer under the glove box inside the car. To trouble shoot it, you'll need a schematic.

Also check your grounds. There are two that are notorious for corrosion. On the drivers side of the engine block, below the compressor is the first one, and the second on is under the battery tray where the ground cable connects to the body. Then there's the positive cable junction where the hot side cables all come together, and you should also take apart the black connecter off the white cable that houses a fusible link. All of those contact points have to be clean and corrosion free to get the right voltages. [/color]



Here's another post that was in response to one I made on SQC:

[color:"red"] Do you have +12volts on one end of the coil? The ignitor (knock box) grounds the other post to fire the ignition. The distributor has a simple wire coil inside it (pick-up coil) that can be replaced easily. If you open up the round connector from the distributor you can ohmmeter the two wires for continuity; a good pick-up coil reads about 1000 ohms. Wiggle the wires as you test; sometimes they fail right at the distributor body.

If that's okay, and you know the ignition coil is okay, then likely the knock box itself has crapped out. The black plastic ones (used on 84-87 cars) is fairly notorious for this. The metal boxed ones on later cars seems to be much more reliable. Roll up a napkin and wedge it between the fender and the connector on your 87 box - so that it flexes the connector a bit - and see if your truck magically starts. The failure is a wire that fatigues and no longer makes connections... but flexing the outer connector sometimes will "line it up" enough.
[/color]



Also, here's a thread I started here just a short while back that I ressurected for this problem. It has some good stuff in it Look towards the later posts with dates consistent with this post. Thread

Last edited by MontyMcV; 01/13/05 04:16 AM.
Re: The TURBO CONVERSION Bible article project post [Re: MontyMcV] #451150
01/24/05 06:44 AM
01/24/05 06:44 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

There is a better turbo option than the starion/conquest, and with much better aftermarket support. Another turbo engine made by Mitsubishi is the 2.0L found in the Eclipse. While the 2.6L can make a lot of power, it just can't compare to the numbers put down by the 2.0L turbo. 400HP is possible from a stock engine, and also quite reliable compared to the 2.6L. The 4g63 is the direct descendent of the 2.0L found in Mitsubishi trucks also known as the G63B. The 2.0L truck transmissions are not very strong though, only 2WD, and a different bolt pattern.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel however. The 4g63 has a brother engine the 4g64 2.4L found in late Mitsubishi trucks. The 4g64 replaced the aging G54B 2.6L engine, complete with matching bellhousings. The secret is that the 4g64 is nearly identical to the 4g63, in design and strength. The 4g63 turbo head is a straightforward swap onto the 4g64 block- timing components and all. The only requirements are custom rods and pistons, and oil squirters if you desire. If stock is not enough, there is a huge aftermarket that supplies the DSM (Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser) world.

Want more options? The 4g63 is capable of 9,000 RPM, but a destroked 4g64 with a 4g63 crankshaft is capable of 10,000+ RPM. Like the 4g63 but not the 4g64? The G63B did exist in a "wide block" form with a bellhousing that matched the G54B bellhousing, but in limited quantities. They can be found in 86-89 2.0L automatic pickups in the US, and 2.0L Starions in Japan and Australia through JDM importers. The bellhousing measures 13.25" across the lower bellhousing bolts compared to 12.25". Another thing to watch for is that all engines have 6 bolts holding the crankshaft to the flywheel, not 7. 6 bolt engines are stronger, and don't get crankwalk, a common problem found in 7 bolt engines. Want all the torque you can get? It is possible to stroke a G63B with a G64B/4G64 crankshaft to 2.3L, but a 7500 RPM rev limiter is a good idea.

A list of different Mitsubishi engines and where to find them.

Last edited by Meursault; 01/30/05 02:23 AM.
Re: The TURBO CONVERSION Bible article project post #451151
01/24/05 03:38 PM
01/24/05 03:38 PM
MontyMcV  Offline
Trail Leader
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,340
Cleve-burg OH USA
Good stuff. But what's the low end torque? How much power starts coming on when? It would take a pretty big ass hill to need 9k RPMs. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />


Big Truck: 00, 3.5, Endeavor, 5-Spd drive line in hand!
Little Truck: 87, 2.6T I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top
Her Truck: 03, 3.8, 20th Anniv, 65k
Daughter's: 06 Eclipse, Keeping it Mitsu!
FSMs: MitsubishiLinks.com
Re: The TURBO CONVERSION Bible article project post [Re: MontyMcV] #451152
01/24/05 08:53 PM
01/24/05 08:53 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

That all depends on your setup: like turbo size, cams, compression ratio, etc.

Stock the 2.0L would have about 203 ft/lbs around 3000 RPM and 195 HP around 6000RPM. You can derive some rough estimates for the rest of the engines since all four use the same head as the 2.0L. I would expect both values to go up as displacement rises, but about the same HP for the stroker and the same torque for the destroker.

Also, the stock turbo really kicks in at about 3000-3500 RPM and pulls all the way to 6000 RPM at WOT.

Last edited by Meursault; 01/24/05 08:58 PM.
Re: The TURBO CONVERSION Bible article project post #451153
01/24/05 09:28 PM
01/24/05 09:28 PM
K
Kevin C  Offline
Trail Leader
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,131
Portland OR ****
The long stroke of a 2.6 makes a great truck engine and typicly a two valve heads produces peak torque at a lower RPM.

So for a 4WD the 2.6 with a turbo is a decent match. Natural low RPM tq and a turbo to get you up hills.

I looked at the 2.0 stroker conversion about a year and a half ago but decided to stay with my current setup. This was based on already having the 2.6 turbo and it works very well with a huge amount of TQ (230 to 270 ftlbs) for a 4 cyl.

If I was starting over the 2.0 - 2.4 motor would get a stronger consideration. A big advantage is it came stock with TPI and 1 injectors per cyl.

The 2.0 stroker is a legal (looking) way i can get TPI in california. If i convert my 2.6 to a magna intake... its a huge deal to get smogged.

Smog check cant tell if I have a stroker crank.

My experiance says I dont need a high RPM motor. For normal driving getting above 4000 rpm is rare. With a stock cam the 2.6 will pull to 6000 no problem and makes decent power to 5700.

Perhaps my next motor will be a 4 valve..... You never know. Right now it runs and there is no strong reason to change.

Kevin


87 Turbo Intercooled Raider, roller cam, torsen rear diff, LSD front diff, lockup auto with modified converter, V6 brakes, low transfer case gears...
Re: The TURBO CONVERSION Bible article project post [Re: Kevin C] #451154
01/25/05 04:22 AM
01/25/05 04:22 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

By all means stick with what works, but if the time comes, there are more options available. I personally just finished dropping a 6 bolt 4g64 into my Mighty Max street truck along with a performance clutch. On my next break from school I'm looking to make my rear end LSD, and later a turbo swap.

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