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#574680 - 03/01/05 12:48 PM ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION ***  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece

Project FAN. Version – 1.0

I received:

1 X fan – make SPAL type VA18-AP51/C-41A 12V
1 X 3-position switch not lighted
1 X thermo – contact no-name 82-87c NOT adjustable
1 X hose adaptor all machined on cooper
1 X fuse hold + 20 Amp fuse
10 x male “blue” thickness plugs ( I did not need them)
10 x female “blue” thickness plugs. ( I was 2 short, so in total you will use 12 + spare ones)
1 X 25W 6R8 160-714 03.18 resistor. ?????? ( I didn’t use )
6 X cables 16AWG 1,5mm2 of various colors (red, orange, black, blue, yellow-green, white) about 3 meters long each. I advise the length to be 5 meters at least, some of them were “just enough”

I need additionally
( I do not include what is usual to a moderate and above equipped home garage )

1 X relay 15W
2 X tightening clamps for the hose + 2-3 incase the existing ones are rusted and not re-usable.
1 X appropriate cooper ring for tightening the thermo – contact.
1 x led indicator (optional)
1 X meter of heat shrink
5 or better more, x meters of spiral tube for the cables at the engine compartment.
1 X drive belt multi-v 850mm, with 4 v-ees. BOSCH TYPE 4-PK 851
1 X can of WD-40
10 X circular plugs for connections to the battery, you will only need two of them.

Editors Notes:
• It will not be a description of how I did it since I took some wrong turns on the way so I will describe what I think is the right way. In these cases witch I will note, my description is a little bit “misty”

Work that should been done BEFORE you start:

1. Sit down and plan the whole thing especially the electric part of it. Prepare a drawing as a bock diagram on how the cables will run and will connect. Don’t rush!!!!
2. Think carefully the location of the switch since you do not want to accidentally switch it off. I have put it above the lever witch opens the hood, it seems a protected place.
3. Plan WHEN you will do it. No kids to read their lessons, no supermarket and the like. It would be nice if you could manage to do it while the shops are open incase you need something. Otherwise either you will not finish that day or If you really need your car to go to work, you will end up with emergency solutions you will have to fix an other day.
4. I have decided to finish up the electric part of the job first so that I will keep the car operational the maximum time while working, (If I missed something, I need the car to go and buy it!!), OFCOURCE WITHOUT CONNECTING IT TO THE BATERY.
5. Plan ahead and rehearse what you need to unbolt – loose – locate – install – secure.
6. Plan ahead HOW you are going to do it.
7. Verify that you have all the necessary tools for what will be required and are in good condition.





Let’s start:

Mechanical part:

1. Disconnect battery cable,
2. Remove any plastic covers you may have covering your engine, and the mask in front.
3. Remove the protective shield underneath the one that protects the bottom of the steering braketry and stuff.
4. here is the part that I didn’t do as described here, so I am not 100% accurate on my directions. Drain (there is a draining screw that you see now that you have removed the protective shield), loosen the hoses, and remove the radiator (If you can remove the shroud now together with the radiator do it) . You can not avoid it. I tried and when I realized I HAD to remove it I had everything loose (shroud – fan and its brackets). So here is the way I SHOULD HAVE done it. You can remove it without removing the A/C one, it takes a little “jiggling”. I had to lift them both so that I could take it off from the holding screw. It is easier moving away the cables hidden on top of the radiators in order to have enough “traveling” length.
5. From underneath again you loosen the tensioner and remove the A/C belt.
6. You loosen the alternator, and you remove its belt also.
7. I would advise you to remove also the coolant reservoir (it will need to loosen the power steering reservoir to do that, but not to remove it) to gain so more space, you may needed ( I did ).
8. Now comes the term of the whole fan assembly. You see it supports itself with two brackets. One heavy duty like cast iron on the left and one thinner on the right side. You ( probably, I couldn’t in the way I did it anyway) see it has three large screws that you have to loose. The other bracket has only one that is the same one holding the alternator in place, loosen it remove the bracket and put the screw again in place.
9. Take the assembly out ( with or without the shroud if you had removed it earlier).
10. Re-position the belts, A/c & alternator, tighten everything ( don’t forget the A/C belt tensioner ).
11. Now its time to do the thermo-contact adaptor. Unfasten the tighteners ( careful, they may be rusted spray them with some WD40 ) and remove the lower hose. Cut it accordingly to fit the adaptor – be careful to leave enough rubber length for the adaptor AND the lower radiator hole.
12. Assemble it ( hoses – adaptor AND install and tighten the thermo contact , using WD-40 sprayed so that hoses slide easily into place, and re-position it. You will have to cut away approximately 1 inch to compensate the adaptors length in the middle, which replaces part of the hoses existing length.
13. Now you have to make a decision. If you are going to keep the shroud or not. I did some people didn’t. I can not say what is right or wrong, I just decided to do keep it, and in this way I am continuing the description. If you decide not to keep it, it may be easier.
14. Assemble -out of the car - radiator, shroud and fan. I had problems fitting the fan to the shroud since I was missing almost an inch in diameter to fit the shroud and I improvised using various bits and pieces from my junk, haven’t finalized it yet. It is also meaningless here to describe a procedure since to many thing could be different ( Kind and make of fan – keeping or not the shroud e.t.c.)
15. If you are keeping the shroud, before you re position the radiator you will have to remove the fan, specially if you, like I did, have the fan situated kind like “after” the shroud and not IN the shroud length. If you are not keeping the shroud, PROBABLY you can mount it all together, again depending on the overall length of the assembly of radiator and fan
16. Install the radiator assembly. Connect upper and (modified) lower hoses. Tight the draining plug on the radiator, Fill with whatever you are filling your radiator, plain water, anti freeze whatever.
17. Install ( if you have taken out) the radiator reservoir, tighten it and also the power steering reservoir.
18. You can install now the protective plate underneath ( I will not do it for a while just to be able to check things, DON’T GO OFFROADING!!!)
19. end of mechanical part.

Electric part.

Only general comments here since it all depends on how you will plan it. So here is what I did:

1. I drew three power lines from battery. One to the switch in the cabin (it will be used to supply current at the “on” function) one to the thermo contact ( the “in” current) and one to the relay (this one will be the one actually supplying the fan). I believe that it is absolutely necessary to put a relay.
2. From the thermo contact you take an other cable and you drive it also to the switch. That is your 12V “trigger” cable for the “auto” function.
3. The output cable from the switch you drive it to the relay to activate it.
4. From the high current output pin of the relay, you drive it to the fan
5. You take a separate cable and from the “-“ of the battery you go to the ground of the relay and then the fan.

That is basically all.

• Cover all cables with plastic flexible tube universally used for in-car installation, of the appropriate diameter.
• Cover all plugs with heat shrinks to avoid sort circuit.

General remarks

• DUBLE CHECK EVERYTHING BEFORE YOU CONNECT THE BATTERY POLE AND BEFORE YOU TURN THE KEY ON, MAKE SURE YOU TIGHTEN ALL THE BOLTS YOU UNFASTEN.
• Check that the continuously ON function is working.
• When on for the first time don’t panic immediately if you see some smoke but not water leaks. Remind you that you have touched the radiator and other parts with your oily hand, so there is oil there that smokes not mentioning the WD-40 you used for sliding the hoses. ( I was panicked before I realized what was smoking)
• While the system heats up be sure to constantly be checking for leaks and also add water or whatever since the whole system was emptied.
• If you see something leaking be sure that is not spilled water from when you were filling it up
• Take your time, letting things dry out, heat up the engine a little bit, say to half of temperature gauge, shut of, check water level, wipe any water spilled and so on all the time double –triple check EVERYTHING while heating up for the first time, don’t rush it. Take it gently.

DISCLAIMERS

• Whatever you do, you do it at your own risk, your own cost and your own responsibility of any possible damage. I can not be responsible for your actions.
• This document is not intended to be, and its not a “manual” It is a description of some actions I did to complete the task.
• Many minor actions are not included.
• All any other possible disclaimers are applied.

Photos of the project can be found here:
photos

Last edited by fokion; 03/16/05 09:16 AM.

'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

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#574681 - 03/21/05 03:32 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
You are more than welkome if you have any questions to pm-me or e-mail me


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#574682 - 05/10/05 07:04 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
Sinece there was some discussion conserning the fan here is the specks of the one I installed

- Maße: ca. 400 * 500 * 63mm(siehe Skizze)
Luftleistung: max. 2700 cbm /
Stunde bei Schutzart IP56 (Staubfest und
Schwallwasserdicht)

Sorry that its in german but you can get the meaning.....

I Have searched the net and found after Shifter's advice that flex-a-lite has a big range of products. I am not familiar with its prices but it may worth a look


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#574683 - 05/16/05 12:19 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
Ok, I think I have to add here how the system bhaves after almost 3 months of being there....

and since the Greek heat had started!!!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Nothing.
Vey smooth
No problems with the battery even thow its an old one
No problem with the A/C, a funny thing is that when the fan opperates and beeing that strong it improves the efficiency of the A/C!!!!
Havent fix the mounting yet but it holds perfectly
Gas mileage has increased noticably
The engine still runs cooler than specs.

Down side things
Noise - the spesific fan IS noisier than what I would like, but again been so efficient it works only for a few seconds ( about 20)


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#574684 - 07/18/05 02:21 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
For those interested I just discovered that SPAL does have also a fan with "cusved" fins so it would not be as noisy as mine that has strait blades


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#574685 - 02/27/06 11:53 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
[color:"red"] CAUTION CAUTION [/color]

I almost burned the engine because out of stupidity, acidentaly I switched OFF <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> the electric fan. Thank God I saw the needle climbing 2/3 of the way

So the switch MUST have a cover in order NOT to be possible to accidently switch it off


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#574686 - 03/05/06 10:27 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
Lennyburger  Offline
Wheeler
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 226
Canberra, Australia
I wouldn't worry so much if the gauge got to 2/3 of the way. Whe my radiator was blocked, the gauge got to one notch from as far as it can go about three times. The last time it got so hot the cap off the overflow reservoir blew off. The engine is still running, no problems at all. Tough little machine!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


KIA, More dirt for ya dollar! 99 Sportage, Pod filter, Bosch Super4 plugs, electric thermo fan, racing pedals, Narva 100W driving lights, Yokhama 235/75R15 Super Diggers....getting to the rest bit by bit.

#574687 - 07/25/06 02:27 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Lennyburger]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
One year and some months.... yep still there to glitch whatsoever.
A few frends of mine here in Greece, done the same mode, so some added experience
16'' inch is the best compromize... carefull thow Spall for the same size has 3 different qualities... A lower dimension in a higher quality IS NOT the same thing.. A friend of mine has the 12 inch heavy duty... Not good works all the time nearly...

We have also installed an aftermarket thermometter just to be sure of the tem. of the engine...


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#574688 - 10/13/06 12:07 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
Iron  Offline
Rock Warrior
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 616
Edmonton, Alberta
Wouldn't it be possible to forge the switch and use a thermostat that turns the fan on at a set temp and off at a set temp? this would reduce the risk of forgetting to turn the switch on, you could even leave the swith in place and use it as a by-pass!


08' Jeep Wrangler
64' Plymouth Sport Fury 383
58' Triumph TR-3A

#574689 - 10/13/06 08:06 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Iron]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
the thermo is also there.
The switch is for the cases that
1. will clim a steeeeeeeeeeeeeeep hill that will overhet the engine ( preventive )
2. when crossing a river you dont want the fan to be on since it will splash the hole engine electriks or brake its fins. Any way been in the water it will cool the engine down


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#574690 - 09/03/07 08:48 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
and something needs to be done in order to be notified in case the fan does not spin...
Otherwise you end-up with an exploded rad....
[Linked Image]


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#574691 - 09/05/07 03:25 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
Calappoyas  Offline
Mudrunner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 393
Eugene, Oregon
A volt meter on the wire grounding the fan motor?


02 [color:"red"] Sportie [/color] 5sp 4x4 2dr. 1½" Body + 4" Rocksportgear lifts, 31x10.50 Wildcats M/Ts, Manual Hubs, Yakima rack, basket. Redline gear oils
http://www.cardomain.com/id/calapooyas
My beater, 03 Land Rover Freelander SE3

#574692 - 09/09/07 08:11 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Calappoyas]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
You need to know that you have "flow" of current at the fan..


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#574693 - 09/09/07 10:54 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
bombardj1  Offline
Rock Warrior
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 893
New Philadelphia, Ohio, USA
how about a led light drilled and put in on one of the acc. blanks on both sides of the steering column, heck put in a buzzer of some sort. ???????? for you lighting bugs out there can the eletric fan be 2 speed automaticly depending on the temp ?


#574694 - 09/10/07 12:22 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: bombardj1]  
Everet  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,224
Silicon Valley, CA
Quote
for you lighting bugs out there can the eletric fan be 2 speed automaticly depending on the temp ?


Buy a SPAL FAN-PWM. You can program it to run fan @ 50% until it hit the next setting, then it will kick up to 100%. Also, when your AC is on, it will turn on your fan.

They are about $75 dollars on ebay.

Everet <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


WWW.UPYOURKIA.COM White 96,4x4, man.hubs,K&N filter,3row rad, twin 16" fans, 3" body lift, 4" UPYOURKIA LIFT KIT,265/75 16 TreadWrights on DC2 wheels,140 amp alt. dual batts.

#574695 - 09/14/07 08:07 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Everet]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
@ everet... that does not save you from a... say burned fuse.....
I am tending to a buzzer.... but still that sounds when the "effect" is happening, not the..."reason"


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#574696 - 09/14/07 08:56 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
Airdale73013  Offline
Rock Warrior
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 645
Oklahoma City, OK
Look at the Tempature Guage.


2009 Sorento LX, 4x4, V6, Auto, Red

#574697 - 09/22/07 07:44 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Airdale73013]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
Yep you are right.....
But had a conversation with wife and was stuck to traffik and everything happened sooooo fast...


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#574698 - 06/04/08 07:51 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
Nukeiridium  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,136
Mesa, Arizona
the Spal PWM fan thing is great! I had one on my old sportage, I'm gonna put it on the new one too when I get around to it. Great piece of kit, when my old sportage got totalled I went to the junk yard and pulled off my stereo and my SPAL fan controller along with its wire harness I made smile

Too bad the fan itself was ruined, crushed <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


2002 Sportage 4dr 4x4 soon to undergo an Extreme Makeover!

#574699 - 04/26/09 04:24 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Nukeiridium]  
ChrisB  Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 82
Farmington,NM
Do you guys let this fan spin the whole time the car is running?


01 Kia sportage,Removed front bumper,Warn manual hubs,

Soon To Come.Cb,4"lift,31's,Custom front bumper,Rock sliders,Winch,Roof rack,Hitch

Make it Break it

#574700 - 04/27/09 04:28 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: ChrisB]  
Everet  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,224
Silicon Valley, CA
I use a SPAL FAN-PWM.
Or, you could put a snap switch in (on @ 200f off @ 185f). Just have the snap switch trigger a relay. Pretty simple. I've done both and the snap switch works good and it's a lot cheaper than the SPAL.

You can mount the snap switch by installing it in the thermostat housing. There is an extra area that one can drill and tap.
If you decide to do it, take pictures and let us know how it works.
Everet <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


WWW.UPYOURKIA.COM White 96,4x4, man.hubs,K&N filter,3row rad, twin 16" fans, 3" body lift, 4" UPYOURKIA LIFT KIT,265/75 16 TreadWrights on DC2 wheels,140 amp alt. dual batts.

#574701 - 04/30/09 07:17 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Everet]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
Nope ( to answer if it runs all the time )
In the lower hose I have put an cooper adapter and a thermo switch on it that triggers the relay and turns on the fan

see the photow on the original post
in tha free area on the thermo housing I have installed the pickup for the addon thermometer I have installed since the original one passes the midle area seconds before the engine explodes..


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#574702 - 07/31/09 01:21 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
budicexxx  Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 89
New Brunswick, Canada
just a quick question i noticed the pulley on the clutch fan has to be changed when removing and installing a electric fan right..Have to find a another pulley to match....right...thanks in advance


2001 sporty, tj rear springs with rav4 shocks, ford alloys machined centers with 30x9.5x15, front spacers. more upgrades to come.

#574703 - 07/31/09 03:17 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: budicexxx]  
Dryver  Offline
Wheeler
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 146
Stow, OH
Actually, you can completely remove the pulley and bracket and run with a shorter alternator belt.


01 Convertible; Electric Fan; 3" Up Your Kia lift spacers; Tj 104's; 31x10.5x15's on Centerlines; Rear LSD.
GONE, all I have left are a few spare parts and the wheels.

#574704 - 07/31/09 03:35 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Dryver]  
budicexxx  Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 89
New Brunswick, Canada
Isnt the water pump on that pulley. I have a 2001 with the 2 l.


2001 sporty, tj rear springs with rav4 shocks, ford alloys machined centers with 30x9.5x15, front spacers. more upgrades to come.

#574705 - 07/31/09 03:50 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: budicexxx]  
Everet  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,224
Silicon Valley, CA
Water pump is run off timing belt. Fan pulley is attached to an idler bearing. Remove it, bracket and all, so you have more room.
Belt # is 4K335. Don't know brand.
Show us some pics of your work.
Everet
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


WWW.UPYOURKIA.COM White 96,4x4, man.hubs,K&N filter,3row rad, twin 16" fans, 3" body lift, 4" UPYOURKIA LIFT KIT,265/75 16 TreadWrights on DC2 wheels,140 amp alt. dual batts.

#574706 - 08/04/09 12:15 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: budicexxx]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
The water pump is on the Cam belt.


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#574707 - 11/24/09 02:28 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
Nukeiridium  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,136
Mesa, Arizona
Just a word of warning:

I had a Spal fan-pwm which I was happy with. I had to transfer it from my old wrecked Sportage to my new one, and unfortunately, in the process one of the connectors got damaged. The connectors that come with the SPAL are not very rugged, especially the pins which appear to be made of very thin metal. One of the pins got somewhat smashed and wasn't making a good connection.

Long story short, in the process of disconnecting it to fix the bent pin, a little plastic tab on the connector that had become brittle broke off. The plastic of the connectors is cheap and gets really brittle from being under the hood. It was the connector that carries +12v and ground from the battery, and Ignition. Well, the way the connector is designed, if the plastic tab breaks off (which it can easily do just from unplugging the connection) then the connection will fit backwards. How do I know? Dumb me, I plugged it in backwards. I didn't even notice the tab was missing. ZAP!

The Spal fan-pwn is now dead, and when I emailed Spal from their website asking if they repair them, I got no response.

So anyway, be careful with those connectors, they are somewhat fragile after they have been under the hood a while, and the unit does not have reverse polarity protection, if you hook it up wrong it WILL kill it.

I ordered a Spal fan-pwn v3 to replace it, we'll see if it's any improvement over the old one. Meanwhile while I wait for it to come in the mail, where the fan-pwm used to be, I just temporarily wired in a relay that runs the fan whenever ignition is on. Funny thing, even with the stock thermostat, having the fan running constantly caused a trouble code to pop up saying that the thermostat was set too low! lol...

Last edited by Nukeiridium; 11/24/09 02:31 PM.

2002 Sportage 4dr 4x4 soon to undergo an Extreme Makeover!

#574708 - 12/30/09 11:30 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Nukeiridium]  
BAZINGA  Offline
Wheeler
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 167
Denmark, Western Australia
What are the pros and cons of swapping to an electric fan system?
I can't see the benefit of swapping. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


99 Auto Sportage. Wildcat Extractors, Lukey Turbo Muffler, Warn manual hubs, K&N Air filter, Tyres 30/9.5/15, Ironman 40mm springs, KYB front struts & rear shocks, GME TX3220 UHF radio, dual battery system. Twin 10" electric fans. Next Job: Body lift

#574709 - 12/30/09 02:52 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: BAZINGA]  
2002_Sporty  Offline
Mudrunner
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 336
Fairbanks Alaska
Here's my .02 cents:

PRO's
1. Better cooling in traffic. Electric fans spin at a constant speed regardless of engine speed. It’s able to pull more air in at idle when in traffic.
2. More power to the rear wheels and better engine efficiency (Fuel Economy). Because the engine is not turning the fan and clutch assembly your engine will put more power to the wheels especially at higher rpm and not needlessly turn the fan at cruising speeds.
CON's
1. Overloading the alternator/electrical system. Relays burn out and some systems have no warning that the fans not turning.
2. Overheating - Improper cooling due to the lack of proper size and fitting of fan. Have to create or adapt a shroud, trial and error as we don't have aftermarket supporters.

Others have hands on experience with this topic.


2002 4dr Kia Sportage 4X4
Tires:235/75/15, Wheels: Black 15x8 Steel ProComp 2.5" B.S., Hubs:Warn Manual, Lift:3" UPYOURKIA, Trailer Hitch, Cargo Rack, Clinometer.

#574710 - 12/31/09 02:20 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: 2002_Sporty]  
BAZINGA  Offline
Wheeler
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 167
Denmark, Western Australia
Quote
Here's my .02 cents


Thank you for the info.
I would have given you a $1 for this!
It sounds like this is the way to go, though you raise some good concerns about the cons.


99 Auto Sportage. Wildcat Extractors, Lukey Turbo Muffler, Warn manual hubs, K&N Air filter, Tyres 30/9.5/15, Ironman 40mm springs, KYB front struts & rear shocks, GME TX3220 UHF radio, dual battery system. Twin 10" electric fans. Next Job: Body lift

#574711 - 01/03/10 07:56 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: BAZINGA]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
cons
1. five years now altenator not even serviced.. and we talking Greece.. imagine how often it work on summer..
2. if you look the fotos again wou will see the KIA sroud there and a 16 inch fan..


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#574712 - 07/23/10 03:00 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
budicexxx  Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 89
New Brunswick, Canada
well i installed a electric fan from a 1998 sunfire and seems to be working fine. I just have it on a toggle switch but work good. Even took it out in some pretty severe terrain with no problems...


2001 sporty, tj rear springs with rav4 shocks, ford alloys machined centers with 30x9.5x15, front spacers. more upgrades to come.

#574713 - 07/23/10 05:18 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: budicexxx]  
Everet  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,224
Silicon Valley, CA
Post some pictures of your work!!!

Might want to put in a 95c-102c snap switch and relay...much safer.

Everet

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


WWW.UPYOURKIA.COM White 96,4x4, man.hubs,K&N filter,3row rad, twin 16" fans, 3" body lift, 4" UPYOURKIA LIFT KIT,265/75 16 TreadWrights on DC2 wheels,140 amp alt. dual batts.

#574714 - 03/19/11 06:50 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: budicexxx]  
freddiespyker  Offline

Getting the Wheeling Fever
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 63
south africa
hi my name is freddie iam from south africa
i would please like to kniw what kind of a vehicle is a sunfife seeing that i am think of replacing my stock fan with a n electric one regards


#574715 - 03/19/11 10:43 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: freddiespyker]  
londart  Offline
Wheeler
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 229
Idaho
its a pontiac sunfire but there are elec fans available in the aftermarket


Lonnie
Auto Parts Professional
95 sportage sold but not forgotten

#574716 - 03/20/11 06:00 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: londart]  
freddiespyker  Offline

Getting the Wheeling Fever
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 63
south africa
thx that i s greate help <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


#574717 - 03/20/11 10:32 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: freddiespyker]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
SPAL ( like the one i used ) is a solution..
Also many AC fans can do the trick

you need it to be 16inch diameter


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#574718 - 03/21/11 07:14 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: fokion]  
freddiespyker  Offline

Getting the Wheeling Fever
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 63
south africa
hi thx for the info it will come in handy. regards


#574719 - 04/21/11 06:44 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: freddiespyker]  
freddiespyker  Offline

Getting the Wheeling Fever
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 63
south africa
hi done the electric fan installation this week on my 99 sporty and i must say much more power on the engine and much less noise after i have removed the fixed fan.thx for all the info guys


#574720 - 06/08/12 01:29 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: freddiespyker]  
BAZINGA  Offline
Wheeler
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 167
Denmark, Western Australia
They say two heads are better than one. Well, what about two fans. The auto shop had fans on special - two for the price of one. So, for $109 I could have got two 16" fans. Used on for the car and the other for a paper weight. So I bought two 10" fans for $69.
They fit across the radiator with about 1cm each side overlapping. With a strip of 1cm thick high density foam around the bottom of the fan.
Set up with a Davies Craig variable thermal switch.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


99 Auto Sportage. Wildcat Extractors, Lukey Turbo Muffler, Warn manual hubs, K&N Air filter, Tyres 30/9.5/15, Ironman 40mm springs, KYB front struts & rear shocks, GME TX3220 UHF radio, dual battery system. Twin 10" electric fans. Next Job: Body lift

#574721 - 12/10/12 07:22 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: BAZINGA]  
TheGoat  Offline

Wheeler
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 175
Strasburg, VA
just ordered 16 inch fan along with 200 on/185 off relay.


So, i bought an 01 Kia Sportage. before i even drove it, i nick-named it The Goat.. it has been just like a goat.. stubbern at every corner...

#574722 - 12/10/12 10:27 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: TheGoat]  
BAZINGA  Offline
Wheeler
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 167
Denmark, Western Australia
Cool! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />


99 Auto Sportage. Wildcat Extractors, Lukey Turbo Muffler, Warn manual hubs, K&N Air filter, Tyres 30/9.5/15, Ironman 40mm springs, KYB front struts & rear shocks, GME TX3220 UHF radio, dual battery system. Twin 10" electric fans. Next Job: Body lift

#574723 - 12/11/12 02:44 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: BAZINGA]  
Everet  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,224
Silicon Valley, CA
How did your dual fans work out on your trip?
Everet <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


WWW.UPYOURKIA.COM White 96,4x4, man.hubs,K&N filter,3row rad, twin 16" fans, 3" body lift, 4" UPYOURKIA LIFT KIT,265/75 16 TreadWrights on DC2 wheels,140 amp alt. dual batts.

#574724 - 12/11/12 11:06 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Everet]  
BAZINGA  Offline
Wheeler
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 167
Denmark, Western Australia
Great! Being the worrywart that I am, I hooked up an LED to see when the fan came on, to make sure it cut in. Well since putting the fans in, they hardly ever cut in - on the highway and around town.
Mind you, they did work for their money. On the way back home we had a head wind and it was 48 degrees celcius in the shade (118 farenheight) <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" /> . It was a lot hotter on the black top, the bitumen was peeling off the road as trucks were driving over it.
Now that I'm sure they both work I have removed the LED.
Having the twin fans is a bit noisier. I took the bonnet sound damping mat off a '97 and it helps a bit. It does make it a bit warmer under there though.


99 Auto Sportage. Wildcat Extractors, Lukey Turbo Muffler, Warn manual hubs, K&N Air filter, Tyres 30/9.5/15, Ironman 40mm springs, KYB front struts & rear shocks, GME TX3220 UHF radio, dual battery system. Twin 10" electric fans. Next Job: Body lift

#574725 - 12/13/12 09:27 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: BAZINGA]  
TheGoat  Offline

Wheeler
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 175
Strasburg, VA
FYI, the belt seems to be the same for a lot of cars. looking for a 4 rib, 335mm belt. comes on a lot of miatas apparently. gonna pick one up tonight from advance auto. # 335k4.


So, i bought an 01 Kia Sportage. before i even drove it, i nick-named it The Goat.. it has been just like a goat.. stubbern at every corner...

#574726 - 01/16/13 02:41 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: TheGoat]  
TheGoat  Offline

Wheeler
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 175
Strasburg, VA
christ almighty! just picked up a tap and drill set for the temp sender.. $55!!!!


So, i bought an 01 Kia Sportage. before i even drove it, i nick-named it The Goat.. it has been just like a goat.. stubbern at every corner...

#574727 - 01/16/13 07:15 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: TheGoat]  
DRX350  Offline

Wheeler
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 235
San Diego, California
I have an LED mounted in the dash for my fan, it's nice to have.

With a new radiator, the fan is never on for more than 2 minutes, even when blasting down a trail or sitting in traffic on the 405.

I did make a "custom" bracket to mount it, because those damn ties that go through the radiator ripped one of the passages.


"Does this part need to be in there?"

1996 Dodge 1500 single cab / short bed, 5.9 4x4; 2" lift (springs not blocks), C.A.I and more mods to come.

#574728 - 01/06/15 10:14 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: DRX350]  
Nukeiridium  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,136
Mesa, Arizona
Hey all,

I have been using a SPAL fan-pwm v3 for a long time. I've been using the stock temperature sensor (the one that signals the ECU, not the one for the temperature gauge).

The problem I started having was sometimes the fan controller would get into some kind of error mode where the status LED would flash rapidly. I looked up the error codes in the FAN-PWM manual and there wasn't a code listed for this behavior (just rapidly flashing, no pauses between flashes).

I called Spal customer support and they told me that they were having problems with the software in the FAN-PWM so they removed the flashing of different error codes. My FAN-PWM was one of the newer models with the updated logic so that if there is ANY error (whether it's over-current, voltage too low, broken circuit with temp sensor, etc.) it will just flash the status LED rapidly, so there is no way for you to tell the different problems apart <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/angry.gif" alt="" />

I actually replaced the FAN-PWM thinking maybe it was bad, but the new unit has the same problem.

A couple times I didn't notice the LED flashing (didn't put it up high enough on the dash) and my engine started overheating. Scary, I could have killed my engine because of this problem.

I rewired everything and replaced the fan with a SPAL fan that draws less current. Problem still wasn't fixed. Checked the voltages supplying the unit, they don't seem too far out of spec. Only thing I can think of at this point is maybe the stock temperature sensor is sometimes flaky, which confuses the FAN-PWM making it throw an error, or else maybe the FAN-PWM unit gets too hot under the hood sometimes and goes into an error mode. Honestly though I am just guessing at this point. It is frustrating.

So, basically, long story short, this FAN-PWM works at least 95% of the time, but when it fails, it is dangerous as it can cause the engine to overheat while stopped in traffic if you don't notice it. If I notice the error code flashing, I can simply turn my engine off and back on again, then the FAN-PWM works fine! Crazy thing.

So since it is no longer 100% reliable, but works well MOST of the time, and I need this car to be reliable for my pregnant wife to sometimes drive, I came up with a failsafe system that would engage the fan in case the SPAL fails.

I ordered one of these, a SPAL temperature switch that turns on at 195 degrees and off at 175 degrees:
http://www.jegs.com/i/SPAL/063/195TS/10002/-1

I will wire this up to a simple relay so that when this temperature switch kicks in, the relay switches.

Then I will splice the relay into my FAN-PWM wiring harness so that when the relay is NOT turned on, the fan is powered by the FAN-PWM unit. When the relay turns on, the circuit with the FAN-PWM is broken, and the fan will be powered straight off the battery (with a fuse inline).

This will bypass the FAN-PWM when the engine gets too hot and turn the fan on.

It blows my mind that the FAN-PWM wasn't designed to just run the fan anyway when it hits an error condition. It seems like that would be the logical failsafe they would program into the unit... If something goes wrong and you're flashing an error code and you don't know what to do, at least run the damn fan so the car can't overheat and destroy the engine!

Anyway, done ranting. I am going to wire it up this way, for now, but it's tempting to just strip out the FAN-PWM unit instead, and run ONLY off of this simple temperature switch. I could easily wire in an extra bypass to engage the fan when the AC compressor is on, too. The only thing I'd lose is that the FAN-PWM has programmable temperature thresholds, and can run the fan on "low" when it doesn't need to run full speed.

I used to think all that was nice but at the end of the day, the most important thing is that the damn fan better spin when the engine gets too hot.


2002 Sportage 4dr 4x4 soon to undergo an Extreme Makeover!

#574729 - 01/06/15 11:15 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Nukeiridium]  
Nukeiridium  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,136
Mesa, Arizona
Oops.. Well I feel stupid now.

I don't know why i didn't think of this before (and the SPAL tech support guy on the phone didn't think of it either) but, the remote status LED on the dash is NOT the same as the status LED on the controller unit itself (which is under the hood).

So, when the status LED on the dash is blinking, that just means there is SOME error. If you pop the hood and look at the LED on the FAN-PWM unit itself, that is where it would flash the code telling you what the error is.

I haven't tried this yet (I don't have any surefire way to trigger an error code) but hopefully I will catch the error happening some time in the near future so I can look under the hood and see what the error was!

I might just be able to fix the problem and not add the failsafe stuff <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Fine with me if that's the case... then I can use the temperature switch and relays and stuff to do an electric fan install on my pickup truck <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" /> That would be a fun project!


2002 Sportage 4dr 4x4 soon to undergo an Extreme Makeover!

#574730 - 01/08/15 02:43 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Nukeiridium]  
Everet  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,224
Silicon Valley, CA
Nuke,
Good to hear from you!
I'm also running a SPAL but using their sensor because it wouldn't work correctly with the stock Sportage one.
I haven't had any issues with it so far. Keep us informed on your findings.
As far as your work around, I have done the same thing with 2 other sportages and had great success.
Also, congrats on the upcoming addition to your family!!!
Everet <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


WWW.UPYOURKIA.COM White 96,4x4, man.hubs,K&N filter,3row rad, twin 16" fans, 3" body lift, 4" UPYOURKIA LIFT KIT,265/75 16 TreadWrights on DC2 wheels,140 amp alt. dual batts.

#574731 - 01/08/15 06:48 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Everet]  
Nukeiridium  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,136
Mesa, Arizona
Thanks Everet.

It sucks because my wife's car is down right now but my car isn't reliable enough for her to drive so she's stranded at home until I fix hers.

So, I was able to catch the error code yesterday. It is 2 codes, a code 4 and a code 2. Code 4 means over-current detected (fan was drawing 30 Amps or more) and code 2 means no fan was sensed at all or fan wasn't detected.

Those 2 codes together didn't seem like they agreed or made sense so I called SPAL tech support. They told me that those 2 codes together means there is a problem with the electric supply feeding the fan controller.

What they said was usually those codes indicate that your electrical system wasn't able to keep up with the demands of the electrical fan. Possibly the voltage to the fan controller dipped too low. I am not sure what the threshold is, probably 11 volts or something, but if the voltage that the fan controller sees drops too far below 12v, all hell breaks loose and the controller will fire all kinds of error codes at once.

Now, this is actually a problem I have seen before on this vehicle, the voltage sags a lot under load. I don't know why though. The battery to engine ground looked OK, as did the engine to chassis ground like. I upgraded the alternator and battery already, and the fan has been replaced and I know it's not drawing 30 Amps, not even close. But sometimes, especially at idle, I'll see the voltage at the cigarette lighter drop below 12v. Really not sure what the problem is.

So, ideally I hope I can figure out the problem, maybe I need to replace / upgrade the cables that run from my battery to the alternator, and upgrade the ground cables, or something.

I really really dislike the idea though that some voltage sag can cause there to be NO radiator fan at all! That, to me, is ridiculous. So I think that no matter what, I'm going to go ahead and install the failsafe temperature sensor that will turn the fan on full speed when the engine temperature gets too hot. Then later hopefully I can solve the low voltage problem.


2002 Sportage 4dr 4x4 soon to undergo an Extreme Makeover!

#574732 - 01/09/15 02:00 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Nukeiridium]  
Peabody  Offline

Mudrunner
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 326
Sac-area, California - USA
That's an odd problem. Do you only experience the increased idle speed when the fan is running? If the idle is always higher, I'd guess you have some kind of excess load on the system or resistance in your cables.

I ran an electric fan in my Sporty. But my system is totally revamped with dual batteries in the rear of the vehicle, long cables running both pos cables and a shared ground to the front, with an isolator separating the charging circuit between to each battery. So all of my cabling, to include the cable from alt to isolator is new. And I went with a thermal snap relay with brass temp probe through the radiator core below the upper radiator hose (inflow) to control the fan. So I'm not going to pretend to be knowledgeable about the SPAL controller. One thing that came to mind was a conversation I had with Everet a while back about the high output alternators. He mentioned something about them (or maybe just his) being of GM or some other make and that it required a "tickler wire" to provide a "stimulation voltage" for proper operation. Not sure it that's what you've got or if you've already got that covered. But I thought it was worth mentioning. I know my isolator has a post for that connection, which is why it came to mind.

Hope my babble wasn't too painful. I'm interested to hear what the issue turned out to be...

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />


1997 Sportage 4x4, auto-trans, Warn manual hubs, 4" UPYOURKIA front lift, TJ 106AA rear springs, 2-5/8" body lift, 31x10.50 treads, SmittyBilt SRC front and XRC rear bumper, swing-out tire mount, OBX LSD front diff, Track Finder rear locker, 5.38 R&Ps and... really crappy gas mileage! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />

#574733 - 01/09/15 02:48 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Peabody]  
Everet  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,224
Silicon Valley, CA
The other thing is that my alternator was fitted with the smallest pulley that the custom builder had. He said that at idle, this alternator output would be about 70 amps.
I don't know if you can put a smaller pulley on your alternator or not.
I also added a heavier supply cable from the alternator over to the main fuse/relay box. After these changes, I don't see any voltage drop.
Hope this helps.
Everet


WWW.UPYOURKIA.COM White 96,4x4, man.hubs,K&N filter,3row rad, twin 16" fans, 3" body lift, 4" UPYOURKIA LIFT KIT,265/75 16 TreadWrights on DC2 wheels,140 amp alt. dual batts.

#574734 - 01/09/15 06:43 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Everet]  
Nukeiridium  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,136
Mesa, Arizona
Quote
The other thing is that my alternator was fitted with the smallest pulley that the custom builder had. He said that at idle, this alternator output would be about 70 amps.
I don't know if you can put a smaller pulley on your alternator or not.
I also added a heavier supply cable from the alternator over to the main fuse/relay box. After these changes, I don't see any voltage drop.
Hope this helps.
Everet


Wow, interesting!

I upgraded the cable that feeds the battery from the alternator, with a much beefier cable. I think the next thing to do for me would be a smaller alternator pulley. That would be great.

I think I might have found the problem with my SPAL fan controller. The way it is wired, the fan gets its power and ground from the wire harness of the fan controller. The fan controller is cabled directly to the battery - Both positive AND ground. The positive cable is fine, BUT I just noticed that the crimp connection on the controller's ground cable is kind of loose. It might have oxidized since it's a loose connection and a cheap crappy crimp connector. I'm going to check that next. Wish me luck! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Oh BTW - about the idle speed - My idle speed is not increasing. I was saying that if I manually increase the RPM a little, by just touching the gas pedal a tiny bit, that bumps up the system voltage to 14v. At 900 RPM, which is what my idle speed is, the voltage shows 12v only. The idle is steady and doesn't fluctuate on its own. This makes me think that my alternator would maintain 14v if it just could spin slightly faster (by using a smaller pulley). I will have to check and see if its pulley is removable and if I can put a smaller one on <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


2002 Sportage 4dr 4x4 soon to undergo an Extreme Makeover!

#574735 - 01/09/15 11:22 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Nukeiridium]  
Nukeiridium  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,136
Mesa, Arizona
Well I got a nice ammeter
and took some measurements.

With the 16" spal fan on high, it consumes about 11 Amps. The total system load on the alternator with the fan running I measured at 25 Amps. Without the fan it's 14 Amps.

The alternator is able to maintain 14v output under a 14 Amp load at idle. However, 25 Amps is too much for it to handle at idle and the output drops to around 12.5v. If I nudge the throttle so the rpm goes up to about 1100 then the alternator is able to maintain 14v output.

I think maybe it's simple, the vehicle was not originally designed to handle that extra 11 Amp load at idle that the fan adds.

I am going to see if I can install an overdrive pulley on the alternator. I'm not sure what the pulley size is and the shaft size, dimensions, etc, I'll try to figure that out.

note: with a relay fan switch this voltage drop isn't a big deal, everything on the car still works. It's just that the spal controller doesn't like to see that voltage drop and will sometimes throw an error code, and even that only happens occasionally. There might also be other issues, I still need to make sure all my wiring to the controller is solid.


2002 Sportage 4dr 4x4 soon to undergo an Extreme Makeover!

#574736 - 01/10/15 02:13 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Nukeiridium]  
Peabody  Offline

Mudrunner
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 326
Sac-area, California - USA
Interesting info. Yep, it sounds like a faster spin on the alternator is probably the fix to the problem, along with a good ground on your circuit. Where'd you get the alternator? I'd like to upgrade mine to better handle the 2 batteries and recovery from running my winch (should it ever happen). You never know when you're going to get stuck in the Taco Bell drive thru... Muwahahaha <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />


1997 Sportage 4x4, auto-trans, Warn manual hubs, 4" UPYOURKIA front lift, TJ 106AA rear springs, 2-5/8" body lift, 31x10.50 treads, SmittyBilt SRC front and XRC rear bumper, swing-out tire mount, OBX LSD front diff, Track Finder rear locker, 5.38 R&Ps and... really crappy gas mileage! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />

#574737 - 01/10/15 03:29 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Peabody]  
Everet  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,224
Silicon Valley, CA
Peabody,
I bought mine down here at San Jose Generator and Starter. If you want, I can call him and see how much he wants for a 140 amp alternator. The only thing I had to do was take a grinder and remove some metal from the cast alternator bracket. Then I made my own adjusting bolt. I can send some pictures if you want.
Give me a call if you want me to check it out.

Everet


WWW.UPYOURKIA.COM White 96,4x4, man.hubs,K&N filter,3row rad, twin 16" fans, 3" body lift, 4" UPYOURKIA LIFT KIT,265/75 16 TreadWrights on DC2 wheels,140 amp alt. dual batts.

#574738 - 01/17/15 09:12 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Everet]  
Nukeiridium  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,136
Mesa, Arizona
GUYS!!! I solved the mystery that has been plaguing my FAN-PWM V3 install every since I first started using this Spal controller!

In fact, I had this same problem with a previous SPAL controller and I replaced it, and the problem was there with the new one as well! Well, now I know why... Because it's a damn design flaw! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/angry.gif" alt="" />

In case you didn't read my story, what was happening was sometimes the controller would blink a code and not turn on the fans. The code it would blink was either "fan not found" or "over-current detected", or sometimes both. Then the fan wouldn't turn on.

Here's the deal. The FAN-PWM V3 has 3 power transistors inside that it uses to switch the power on and off rapidly to the fans (aka PWM). It does this for "low" mode. These power transistors get hot so they need heat sinking to something that can dissipate the heat. The chassis of the unit acts as the heatsink. There is a pad of supposedly non-conductive thermal material sandwiched between the transistors and the metal housing of the unit. Then there's a piece of thin springy steel that pushes the transistors against this pad. So there should be a firm connection there allowing heat to be effectively dissipated.

Now, these transistors have some metal on them, and it turns out that this metal, which touches the thermal pad, carries positive voltage. When the fan is off you'll see 12V here, and when the fan is on low you'll see around 4 to 6 volts here. If you were to, say, short this to ground, it would turn the fans on, and current would flow through your short, into the fans. But you DON'T want that...

Unfortunately, over time the thermal pad wears away and the metal part of these power transistors ends up touching the aluminum housing of the FAN-PWM V3. Now, most people are probably inclined to mount this metal housing of the FAN-PWM to their chassis. If you do that, you end up creating a grounding path from your car's chassis, to the FAN-PWM chassis, through worn out thermal pad area, and into the power transistors, thus turning on the fans.

So a couple things can happen. In my case, the connection between my car's body and the FAN-PWM housing wasn't very solid, so it would only ground out sometimes. What would happen is the fan would be on Low, and then the chassis would ground out, sending more current through to the fans (running them full speed), which would confuse the hell out of the controller and it would say ERROR! Too much current detected!

The other thing that could happen is if it grounds out while your vehicle is turned off, I think it can actually make the fan run, and kill your battery! I am pretty sure this has happened to me as well.

So, I think I can fix it. I ordered some Arctic Alumina Thermal Adhesive. It's great stuff, I have worked with it before. It's basically a 2 part epoxy that transfers heat really well. The nice thing about this particular stuff is it does NOT conduct electricity, only heat.

The fix I'm going to try:
Disassemble the unit
Paint on a layer of Arctic Alumina
Let dry
Put on a 2nd layer to glue the power transistors down
Reassemble

That should fix it <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" /> I'll report back.


2002 Sportage 4dr 4x4 soon to undergo an Extreme Makeover!

#574739 - 01/17/15 09:15 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Nukeiridium]  
Nukeiridium  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,136
Mesa, Arizona
Also: If you have the FAN-PWM V3 and you want to test whether you have this problem, it's really easy:

While the fan is running on Low, take a wire and connect it to ground somewhere, or battery negative. Then find a spot on the FAN-PWM where the bare metal is showing (you could scratch off a bit of the paint). Touch the other bare end of the wire there, and you'll get sparks, your fan will run on HIGH while the wire is touching, and after a couple seconds of this your FAN-PWM will start blinking an error code <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

How else can you fix this problem without taking apart the unit? Simply install it in such a way that the metal outside of the unit will NEVER connect to ground. For example, glue it to the fender well with RTV, or something like that, I don't know. Sounds like a hassle to me, I expect things to have a chassis that is ground-safe.


2002 Sportage 4dr 4x4 soon to undergo an Extreme Makeover!

#574740 - 01/18/15 05:32 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Nukeiridium]  
Everet  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,224
Silicon Valley, CA
Nuke,
Great find! I'll make sure that my installation is isolated from the frame/body.
Were you able to get a smaller pulley?
Everet <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


WWW.UPYOURKIA.COM White 96,4x4, man.hubs,K&N filter,3row rad, twin 16" fans, 3" body lift, 4" UPYOURKIA LIFT KIT,265/75 16 TreadWrights on DC2 wheels,140 amp alt. dual batts.

#574741 - 01/19/15 02:01 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Everet]  
Nukeiridium  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,136
Mesa, Arizona
I haven't found a pulley that fits yet smirk Still looking.


2002 Sportage 4dr 4x4 soon to undergo an Extreme Makeover!

#574742 - 01/19/15 06:21 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Nukeiridium]  
Nukeiridium  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,136
Mesa, Arizona
I talked to Spal tech support on the phone. They were not aware that this problem could occur. They said maybe this could explain why they had so many customers struggling with these mysterious error codes. They asked me to let them know whether my fix works and makes the codes go away permanently <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" />

It's kind of a shame, they discontinued this product because too many people were having error codes they couldn't figure out. It's possible it's because of this very issue. I can see how it could be hard to figure out. I'm an engineer and it took me years of running this device in my vehicle before I tracked down what was going wrong.


2002 Sportage 4dr 4x4 soon to undergo an Extreme Makeover!

#574743 - 01/21/15 07:33 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Nukeiridium]  
Nukeiridium  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,136
Mesa, Arizona
OK everyone I need your advice / opinions!

The subject is, WHERE the temperature sensor for an electric fan should be!

If you have an electronic controller such as the SPAL FAN-PWM, you have the option of connecting it to the STOCK temperature sensor. Then you don't need to add any sensor.

However, this sensor is on the TOP side of the engine, where the hot water first comes out of the engine, before it goes into the radiator.

I have seen guides in the past that say that ideally, the sensor should be on the BOTTOM hose, so that it measures the temperature of the water coming out of the radiator.

Why? Because what you're really looking for when deciding whether to turn on the fan, is whether the water is being cooled down by the radiator. So you should check the water as it comes out of the radiator. This way, if the water coming INTO the radiator is very hot, it's OK and you don't need to turn the fan on, as long as the water coming OUT of the radiator is cool enough.

Also, a lot of fan controllers put the sensor ON the radiator fins, for the same reason: The fan should turn on based on whether the radiator is too hot, not the engine itself.

But my theory is, you can guess pretty close whether the radiator fan needs to turn on based on the engine temperature, because the only reason your engine temperature should get too high is if you are not getting enough airflow through the radiator... usually.

What do you all think? Is it worth the extra work, if I currently am tapped into the stock engine temperature sensor (which is before the water goes into the radiator), to ADD a sensor at the BOTTOM hose of the radiator instead, so I'm measuring the temperature after the radiator, and turn the fan on based on that?

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


2002 Sportage 4dr 4x4 soon to undergo an Extreme Makeover!

#574744 - 01/22/15 01:27 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Nukeiridium]  
BAZINGA  Offline
Wheeler
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 167
Denmark, Western Australia
I used the Davies Craig Mechanical Thermal Switch and installed it beside the radiator.

[Linked Image]


Attached Files
Last edited by BAZINGA; 01/22/15 01:28 AM.

99 Auto Sportage. Wildcat Extractors, Lukey Turbo Muffler, Warn manual hubs, K&N Air filter, Tyres 30/9.5/15, Ironman 40mm springs, KYB front struts & rear shocks, GME TX3220 UHF radio, dual battery system. Twin 10" electric fans. Next Job: Body lift

#574745 - 01/23/15 02:48 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Nukeiridium]  
Everet  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,224
Silicon Valley, CA
Personally, I placed my sensors in the thermostat housing. It is where Kia put one so I followed suit.
I'll try and post size of pulley and picture of it.
Everet


WWW.UPYOURKIA.COM White 96,4x4, man.hubs,K&N filter,3row rad, twin 16" fans, 3" body lift, 4" UPYOURKIA LIFT KIT,265/75 16 TreadWrights on DC2 wheels,140 amp alt. dual batts.

#574746 - 01/23/15 10:38 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Everet]  
Nukeiridium  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,136
Mesa, Arizona
Quote
Personally, I placed my sensors in the thermostat housing. It is where Kia put one so I followed suit.
I'll try and post size of pulley and picture of it.
Everet


Yes, but the purpose of these sensors is to determine the engine temperature, so it makes sense they should be right at the thermostat housing. They are sensing how hot the engine is, not how hot the radiator is. They OEM sensors weren't intended to control a radiator fan. The OEM radiator fan is controlled by the clutch, which is heated by its proximity to the radiator.

I am not sure if it makes more sense for the radiator fan to be controlled by the radiator temperature, rather than the temperature at the thermostat housing. If you're going down the road, the temperature of the water coming OUT of the radiator will be a lot cooler than the water going IN, so no fan is needed. If you're sitting still, however, the temperature coming OUT of the radiator is going to be much hotter, so you need the fan. In a way this seems like it makes more sense, to put the sensor on the cool side of the radiator. I'm not sure it matters a whole lot though, it's way easier to just connect to the OEM sensor, which is how i have it connected currently.

I just think there might be cases where my fan kicks in while the vehicle is moving down the road and doesn't need the fan.


2002 Sportage 4dr 4x4 soon to undergo an Extreme Makeover!

#574747 - 01/26/15 04:02 AM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Nukeiridium]  
BAZINGA  Offline
Wheeler
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 167
Denmark, Western Australia
I put the Davies Craig sensor in the top radiator hose as close to the thermostat housing as possible.


99 Auto Sportage. Wildcat Extractors, Lukey Turbo Muffler, Warn manual hubs, K&N Air filter, Tyres 30/9.5/15, Ironman 40mm springs, KYB front struts & rear shocks, GME TX3220 UHF radio, dual battery system. Twin 10" electric fans. Next Job: Body lift

#574748 - 08/09/15 08:37 PM Re: ELECTRIC FAN - INSTALLATION [Re: Nukeiridium]  
Everet  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,224
Silicon Valley, CA
Quote
I talked to Spal tech support on the phone. They were not aware that this problem could occur. They said maybe this could explain why they had so many customers struggling with these mysterious error codes. They asked me to let them know whether my fix works and makes the codes go away permanently <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" />

It's kind of a shame, they discontinued this product because too many people were having error codes they couldn't figure out. It's possible it's because of this very issue. I can see how it could be hard to figure out. I'm an engineer and it took me years of running this device in my vehicle before I tracked down what was going wrong.


Nuke,
Any Update?


WWW.UPYOURKIA.COM White 96,4x4, man.hubs,K&N filter,3row rad, twin 16" fans, 3" body lift, 4" UPYOURKIA LIFT KIT,265/75 16 TreadWrights on DC2 wheels,140 amp alt. dual batts.

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