Extreme Terrain
4x4Wire Trail Talk Forums: Jeep, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Pajero, Isuzu, Kia, 4WD, 4x4, SUV, Off-Road and OutdoorWire Forums


Search 4x4Wire
Search E-Bay for your parts:
Search Amazon for your parts:

Search

Recent Posts on TrailTalk
Truck cut off; will not restart...
by rxinhed. 10/19/17 03:31 AM
3.5 hesitating hot or cold
by 3esso. 10/17/17 08:26 PM
Suspension been fitted now with photos
by 4runnernomore. 10/17/17 11:24 AM
CanCooker Recipe - October 2017
by 4x4Wire. 10/13/17 06:33 PM
PepBoys: 25% off Wagner Premium Brake Parts
by 4x4Wire. 10/10/17 06:25 PM
suzi the psychic
by rascott. 10/10/17 12:09 AM
Support 4x4Wire
New Topics on TrailTalk
3.5 hesitating hot or cold
by 3esso. 10/17/17 08:24 PM
CanCooker Recipe - October 2017
by 4x4Wire. 10/13/17 06:33 PM
PepBoys: 25% off Wagner Premium Brake Parts
by 4x4Wire. 10/10/17 06:25 PM
FS - 1980 D50 2wd
by rxinhed. 10/07/17 02:50 AM
FS - 1989 Power Ram 50
by rxinhed. 10/07/17 02:40 AM
Battery and Brake lights on
by toyomorph. 10/04/17 11:52 PM
4x4 Gallery
Flex test after suspension mods
Clearance check!
Testing the new Kenda Klever 31x10.50x15
My '88
4x4Wire YJ
More News on the 'Wire

4x4Voice
4x4Wire
MUIRNet-News
OutdoorWire
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 175 guests, and 6 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums37
Topics137,648
Posts1,078,995
Members14,699
Most Online581
Apr 3rd, 2017
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#686260 - 01/15/06 07:25 AM Throttlebody cleaning ***  
flyboy367  Offline
Mudrunner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 477
new jersey
well today i finally got to change my sparkplugs. i did the coils wires and bosch platnum 1's. i used the writeup at the top of this page. went beautifully. while i had the intake assembly apart i figured what the hell ill clean the throttlebody. so here is what you do.

parts:
big can of carb cleaner.
socks
toothbrush, preferably one you dont plan on using again.
no parts stores by me carry kia parts and the only kia dealer has limited so i used permatex form a gasket gray. i use the stuff assembling superchargers so for the kia it shouldnt be a problem.

tools:
12mm wrench
6mm? allen head tool.

step one, pull intake assembly apart as per instructions for changing plugs.

your motor should then look like this:
[Linked Image]

if you dont know what this is please do not go any further <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
[Linked Image]

gently remove the 3 wires to the throttle linkage. just open the blades and remove the wires, you need to mess with them a bit but its nothing more then moving the cylender out of the slot. i couldnt get a good shot of it but youll know it when you see it. then take off the tps sensor connection. now 2 12mm nuts and 1 hex bolt are in your path. the hex bolt i forgot to write down the size. i think its a 6mm. it feels like its gonna strip but hang on it will come out. now just underneath you will see 2 hoses with squeeze clamps on them. pull them suckers off. its the coolant passage. many of us racers usually block them off but in this case its such a small area the coolant moves thru i figured just leave it be. now a little pry and that tb should come right off.

then you will see this:
[Linked Image]
if you look close on the left side there is the pcv. might as well change it now it will never be easier.

so here is a 100k mile throttlebody that has never been serviced.
[Linked Image]
pretty nasty huh. go ahead and soak that sucker in some carb cleaner. and get a drink.

srape off the gasket. use the toothbrush or even a dental pick to get the gunk off the throttleblades and on the tb where they hit. and scrub scrub scrub. you will feel the difference as you open the blades while you clean.
now it should look like this:
[Linked Image]

dont forget to clean up the intake and get down in there to get out the gunk. dont spray into it though otherwise youll get a surprise on startup from pooled cleaner in the piston chamber. i just spray on the sock and toothbrush and scrub away.
[Linked Image]

now you can go ahead and spread a thin layer of the gray stuff and reinstall it all. or look below.
part 2 not for the faint of hart.

i looked at the intake tube to the throttlebody and noticed how much material blocked the throttle openings. so i decided to fix it. i wish i took a before pick of the intake tube but i didnt so just imagine it ok. after some heavy porting on the bottom and light on the top i matched it perfectly to the tb.
[Linked Image]

then i got to looking at the tb. i decided to edge the throttleblades. i used a cone stone and slowly touched it to the blade at a 45* angle. top front and back bottom. this allows air to enter sooner as the tb opens. then i took some metal off the throttleblade bar. you really dont need to since its not a race engine but i was board so what the hell.

next i took my stone onto the middle divider and didnt stop till i had a perfect airfoil. if you dont know what i mean, look up tpi airfoil on ebay. it helps feed air into the blades. then i took 1.5mm off the front opening then down to .5mm at the blades and the same on the back. this creats a venturi that forces air in faster. i thought it was bs too until a guy showed me on my saturn. so now looky:
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

isnt she a beauty. i also opened up that hole on the bottom for no apparent reason. so i bolt the sucker together and instant difference. much faster throttle responce and better feel thru the rpm range. then i decided to try something dumb. i removed the "black box" from the intake tube. i plugged it with an oil fill cap leftover from a pontiac gtp. fit perfectly into the hole. now even better responce, no buildup changin gears just smooth shifting up to redline and much more noticeable tire spin on the butt dyno. so thats my story. any questions?


1995 nissan maxima se, 5spd short throw, aluminum flywheel and crank pully, stage 3 clutch, custom ported top end, full 2.5 exhaust jdm front end

Support our sponsors

#686261 - 01/16/06 02:03 AM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: flyboy367]  
Axe Man  Offline

Kia Moderator Emeritus
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,497
Highland, NY
Very Nice!

A few observations: If you do soak the throttle body in carb cleaner I would NOT let the TPS get saturated. The carb cleaner could damage it. Also with regards to the TPS: it would be best to cut off the electrical connector and solder the wires directly to the TPS. That connector is notorious for developing contact resistance.

Unless you plan on porting the throttle body like you did I wonder how necessary it really is to remove it completely to give it a good cleaning. I just open the plates and clean them with carb cleaner at every plug change. Seems to work fine.

None the less...very nice pictorial. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> Do you want me to sticky it as a maintenance item?


1998 Sportage - Gone.
2004 Honda Civic Coupe.
2007 Suzuki Grand Vitara - She got it.

#686262 - 01/16/06 02:09 AM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: Axe Man]  
flyboy367  Offline
Mudrunner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 477
new jersey
well when i worked in the dealership most of the guys that did the shortcut tb cleaning usually had thier cars coming back for o2 sensors. basically you fill up the intake with a flamable chemical then ignite it when you start the car. i always do the pulloff and never had a problem. you can sticky it if you want. it can be my one claim to fame <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


1995 nissan maxima se, 5spd short throw, aluminum flywheel and crank pully, stage 3 clutch, custom ported top end, full 2.5 exhaust jdm front end

#686263 - 01/16/06 04:17 PM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: flyboy367]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
the differenses in sizes you saw between the parts and you grind them off, were there big?
I mean would you took all that appart just for that purpose?

Last edited by fokion; 01/16/06 04:18 PM.

'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#686264 - 01/16/06 06:40 PM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: fokion]  
flyboy367  Offline
Mudrunner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 477
new jersey
fokion, what your sayin is kinda greek to me <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />
i wanted to pull off the throttlebody just to clean it. i usually save p/p for performance cars, but i got board and went ahead on the kia. i didnt really mess any of my stones up so its a double plus. i figured since i had it all apart i wanted to see how it was. i always like seeing how stuff works. if you hold the tb an dthe intake tube together like they should be, then open the blades and look in you can see where all the extra metal is. it was a pretty big difference. in some spots almost 1/4" which pans out pretty bad. after the porting and smoothing, then going to town on the throttlebody and then ditching the stupid plastic bucket on the intake tube my truck will handle up to 40mph barly touching the throttle and i can floor it from 50 and just take off up to redline with no hesitation. for as easy as it is to take it apart id say go for it. at the least clean your throttlebody. you will see a difference there.


1995 nissan maxima se, 5spd short throw, aluminum flywheel and crank pully, stage 3 clutch, custom ported top end, full 2.5 exhaust jdm front end

#686265 - 01/17/06 12:29 AM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: flyboy367]  
logansportage  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,218
Logan, Utah
Great write-up!!!

Next time I've got mine apart doing plugs, I'm going to do this!

What kind of stones did you use? Did you just use a Dremel or something special?

Thanks
Logansportage <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />


White 1998 4 door KIA Sportage 4x4 w/Eibach 2.5 spring lift and TJ rear coils, 4crawler 1.5 body lift, Monroe Sensa.trac shocks, Bosch 4+ plugs, Eaton LSD, 31x10.5x15 BFG KM tires, 2.5 cat back exhaust w/SpinTech muffler

#686266 - 01/17/06 09:02 AM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: flyboy367]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
Quote
fokion, what your sayin is kinda greek to me <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />
i wanted to pull off the throttlebody just to clean it. i usually save p/p for performance cars, but i got board and went ahead on the kia. i didnt really mess any of my stones up so its a double plus. i figured since i had it all apart i wanted to see how it was. i always like seeing how stuff works. if you hold the tb an dthe intake tube together like they should be, then open the blades and look in you can see where all the extra metal is. it was a pretty big difference. in some spots almost 1/4" which pans out pretty bad. after the porting and smoothing, then going to town on the throttlebody and then ditching the stupid plastic bucket on the intake tube my truck will handle up to 40mph barly touching the throttle and i can floor it from 50 and just take off up to redline with no hesitation. for as easy as it is to take it apart id say go for it. at the least clean your throttlebody. you will see a difference there.


so you DO understand Greek <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />
You answered exactly what I was asking!!!!!!!
So It DOES worth grind the system.

AFAIK the same missmatch happens to the exaust header


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#686267 - 01/17/06 02:30 PM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: fokion]  
fokion  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,476
Athens Greece
I would vote for "sticking" it
if you ask me <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


'96 4d mechanicaly stock so far, rims, spoiler, Cooper AT tyres, Factory LSD, Manual Warn Hubs, handmade exaust, ELECTRIC FAN!!! 3,1'' Lift, PALM GPS
http://members.cardomain.com/fokion

#686268 - 01/17/06 02:38 PM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: fokion]  
flyboy367  Offline
Mudrunner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 477
new jersey
Logan, i use the stone you get in a set at home depot. mostly the large cone, and a flat circular wheel. the cone is great to get your angle for tapering and putting an edge, the wheel is for taking off alot at a time. you really should use a dremel but im lazy and dont feel like paiting forever so i used my high rpm die grinder <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
just be careful of flying aluminum.


1995 nissan maxima se, 5spd short throw, aluminum flywheel and crank pully, stage 3 clutch, custom ported top end, full 2.5 exhaust jdm front end

#686269 - 01/19/06 10:05 PM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: flyboy367]  
logansportage  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,218
Logan, Utah
Cool.

Yes, Flyluminum can be a pain in the eye <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> and ARSS <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/butwiggle.gif" alt="" />. Been there and done that. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" />

Logansportage <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />


White 1998 4 door KIA Sportage 4x4 w/Eibach 2.5 spring lift and TJ rear coils, 4crawler 1.5 body lift, Monroe Sensa.trac shocks, Bosch 4+ plugs, Eaton LSD, 31x10.5x15 BFG KM tires, 2.5 cat back exhaust w/SpinTech muffler

#686270 - 03/07/07 01:18 PM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: logansportage]  
Delarey  Offline
Need a Spot
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 17
Pretoria, South Africa
I have today joined the forum, because I just have to tell you that I have just today cleaned and polished my Sporty's tb and man what a difference <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> I am sure my car will be more economical as well <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for the posting. Your'e a star <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" /> By the way I live in Pretoria South Africa, and yes we do have cars here!!


#686271 - 03/07/07 10:33 PM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: Delarey]  
flyboy367  Offline
Mudrunner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 477
new jersey
wow, i have been called many things but i dont think ever a star <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

glad your up and running.


1995 nissan maxima se, 5spd short throw, aluminum flywheel and crank pully, stage 3 clutch, custom ported top end, full 2.5 exhaust jdm front end

#686272 - 07/06/07 11:01 PM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: Axe Man]  
nuklbuster  Offline
Need a Spot
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6
I was having the same hesitation and bogg problems, I followed these instructions and changed the plugs....all clear!!! No problems whatsoever. Thanks for the tutorial, this site is awesome! I consider myself a rookie DIY mechanic, and these instructions were perfect. Thanks again. celebrating now with a cold one <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


#686273 - 07/07/07 04:46 AM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: nuklbuster]  
flyboy367  Offline
Mudrunner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 477
new jersey
glad it helped. look up other threads by me for some more diy performance. or just email me. im out of a kia and back into a "street car" but i still love the damn things.


1995 nissan maxima se, 5spd short throw, aluminum flywheel and crank pully, stage 3 clutch, custom ported top end, full 2.5 exhaust jdm front end

#686274 - 11/26/07 06:49 PM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: flyboy367]  
DSHornet  Offline
Wheeler
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 166
Hoover (Birmingham), AL, USA
I did it, too, and the car runs MUCH better. I'm just not sure how much performance improvement was due to the TB cleaning/mod and how much to the spark plug replacement. But this was a good excuse to buy a Dremel kit. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

The plugs were well worn after about 50K miles, so they needed replacement. The gaps were anywhere from .05 inch to about .06 inch - pretty wide. I looked in the air tube and the TB and ground off any metal that interfered with a smooth transition between the parts (it wasn't much but we want to remove any unwanted turbulence, don't we?). I also smoothed the tube where it flares and goes into the TB.

Let's face it, our engines aren't gonna have a lot of push at lower speeds. But any improvement will help.


Paw-paw Don, y'all
.

Favorite quote: "One need never apologize for exercising the Golden Rule."

#686275 - 11/27/07 02:11 PM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: DSHornet]  
Lou  Offline
Mudrunner
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 360
Chicoutimi,Canada
Quote
..I'm just not sure how much performance improvement was due to the TB cleaning/mod and how much to the spark plug replacement..

Yeah...and is it possible some of the improvement might be subjective too...but anyhow, I like that and since there is no harm doing it, and I already have the dremmel <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />, I promise I'll do it too on my next pass in that area... even if it turns out just for the elegance of the air flow, and take the "before" photo that is missing above.


#686276 - 08/06/08 06:09 PM Black Box? [Re: Axe Man]  
Paul  Offline
Need a Spot
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1
Ypsilanti, MI
What is the Black Box you removed from the intake tube?

Thanks

Paul

Quote
Very Nice!

A few observations: If you do soak the throttle body in carb cleaner I would NOT let the TPS get saturated. The carb cleaner could damage it. Also with regards to the TPS: it would be best to cut off the electrical connector and solder the wires directly to the TPS. That connector is notorious for developing contact resistance.

Unless you plan on porting the throttle body like you did I wonder how necessary it really is to remove it completely to give it a good cleaning. I just open the plates and clean them with carb cleaner at every plug change. Seems to work fine.

None the less...very nice pictorial. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> Do you want me to sticky it as a maintenance item?


#686277 - 08/08/08 11:27 PM Re: Black Box? [Re: Paul]  
flyboy367  Offline
Mudrunner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 477
new jersey
wow its been a while, if you look at the intake manifold it has a tube off the trhottlebody that goes across the motor. in the middle at the rear of the engine is a black box attached to the tube. its an air silencer. it makes the intake quiet. basically it means it interupts the air flow to the throttlebody. take this out and plug the hole and now you have more air to the tb. more air = better performance. the engine is an air pump so when you do a cold ait kit or ram air and the stuff in this writeup its a good idea to upgrade to a 2.25" exhaust.


1995 nissan maxima se, 5spd short throw, aluminum flywheel and crank pully, stage 3 clutch, custom ported top end, full 2.5 exhaust jdm front end

#686278 - 08/09/08 07:22 AM Re: Black Box? [Re: flyboy367]  
Hydra747  Offline
Roll Me Over
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,814
South Texas *
Wow!

Been a long time Don!

How the Hell is turtle?

As far as that black box---just seal it with some plumbing cover with a clamp---and it should be good to go! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


[color:"green"]____________________________________________________________________________________________________[/color]

The Kia Sportage: When I grow up, I want to be a "HUMMER"

#686279 - 08/09/08 01:17 PM Re: Black Box? [Re: Hydra747]  
flyboy367  Offline
Mudrunner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 477
new jersey
no idea, havent heard from him since the alledged rollover. just been working mu butt off. spent a few weeks working on new yankee stadium now im doing a highrise in the upper west side of manhatten. sold the camaro and now have a 95 maxima se with a truckload of performance parts ive been adding.


1995 nissan maxima se, 5spd short throw, aluminum flywheel and crank pully, stage 3 clutch, custom ported top end, full 2.5 exhaust jdm front end

#686280 - 08/13/08 10:59 PM Re: Black Box? [Re: flyboy367]  
logansportage  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,218
Logan, Utah
Congrats on selling the camero and welcome back for a bit.

Logansportage <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />


White 1998 4 door KIA Sportage 4x4 w/Eibach 2.5 spring lift and TJ rear coils, 4crawler 1.5 body lift, Monroe Sensa.trac shocks, Bosch 4+ plugs, Eaton LSD, 31x10.5x15 BFG KM tires, 2.5 cat back exhaust w/SpinTech muffler

#686281 - 06/30/09 05:42 PM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: flyboy367]  
Deathowl  Offline

Need a Spot
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2
UK
i have an m reg kia sport done 118k miles it runs like a dog 0 to about 45 then it is ok do you think this would help

Si


#686282 - 07/01/09 12:09 AM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: Deathowl]  
flyboy367  Offline
Mudrunner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 477
new jersey
wouldnt hurt thats for sure. try the fuel filter as well.


1995 nissan maxima se, 5spd short throw, aluminum flywheel and crank pully, stage 3 clutch, custom ported top end, full 2.5 exhaust jdm front end

#686283 - 05/03/11 12:55 PM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: flyboy367]  
2002_Sporty  Offline
Mudrunner
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 336
Fairbanks Alaska
Completed my first throttle body cleaning this weekend.
65,000 mile marker. Followed directions above and the proceedure went smooth. Thank the posters.
Quicker response now and has a definate smoother feel to the throttle.


2002 4dr Kia Sportage 4X4
Tires:235/75/15, Wheels: Black 15x8 Steel ProComp 2.5" B.S., Hubs:Warn Manual, Lift:3" UPYOURKIA, Trailer Hitch, Cargo Rack, Clinometer.

#1079126 - 09/26/15 06:41 PM Re: Throttlebody cleaning [Re: 2002_Sporty]  
promodmerc  Offline

Wheeler
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 173
Raytown MO
Just did this today to my 196K mile 2002. On mine the gasket was stuck to the intake instead of he throttle body. I stuck a rag into the intake manifold to keep bits of gasket from finding their way in. Don't need that sucked into the cylinders. grin

I haven driven it yet but just revving the throttle it felt smoother.


Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Axe Man, DamKia 

OutdoorWire Websites

OutdoorWire

OutdoorWire

Portal page for OutdoorWire Access and Landuse Central Read More
4x4Voice

4x4Voice

California off road recreation news and information Read More
MUIRNet News

MUIRNet News

News and information about issues affecting outdoor recreation Read More
4x4Wire

4x4Wire

Off road recreation and 4x4 Technical news and information Read More
TrailTalk

TrailTalk

4x4Wire TrailTalk Forums for a variety of 4x4 tech information Read More

4x4Wire Tech Section

Jeep 4x4 Tech

Jeep 4x4 Tech

Jeep Tech from JeepWire - Mods, Maintenance, Tech and more... Read More
Isuzu 4x4 Tech

Isuzu 4x4 Tech

Isuzu Tech from 4x4Wire - Mods, Maintenance, Tech and more... Read More






4x4Wire Social:

| 4x4Wire on FaceBook | Google+4x4Wire on Google+|


OutdoorWire, 4x4Wire, JeepWire, TrailTalk, MUIRNet-News, and 4x4Voice are all trademarks and publications of OutdoorWire, Inc. and MUIRNet Consulting.
Copyright (c) 1999-2017 OutdoorWire, Inc and MUIRNet Consulting - All Rights Reserved, no part of this publication may be reproduced in any form without express written permission
You may link freely to this site, but no further use is allowed without the express written permission of the owner of this material.
All corporate trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.016s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 1.0053 MB (Peak: 1.2841 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2017-10-22 22:43:07 UTC