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#694529 - 02/09/06 08:45 PM Re: New dyno numbers [pointless brag post] [Re: 87Toy4x4]  
4WD22R  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,287
Glendale, Arizona
Quote
DRAG TIMES!!


+1 +1 <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


-1986 TOYOTA
22R
ZUK coil rear
Torqued T-Bars
Marlin HD clutch

Newly rebuilt!! Runnin' like a champ!

AZTTORA #492
TLCA member

"I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft."
--George W. Bush

From the Off-Road World

#694530 - 02/09/06 08:55 PM Re: New dyno numbers [pointless brag post] [Re: 4WD22R]  
mosk  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,059
Belmont, CA, USA
Quote
Quote
DRAG TIMES!!


+1 +1 <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


LOL, believe me, I'm curious too. Unfortunately, there aren't any easy-to-reach drag strips in my area. The nearest is 2-3 hours away (Infineon Raceway in Sonoma). Maybe I can find the time in the spring or early summer, after I get the water injection installed and have a chance to retune.


Jeff Moskovitz
1986 turbo 4X4 truck
1998 2.7L/M5 4X4 4Runner

Jeff's 22R-TE page

22RTE Turbo Truck Forum (advertising free)

#694531 - 02/09/06 09:52 PM Re: New dyno numbers [pointless brag post] [Re: mosk]  
BoostedInline6  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,205
N. California
Which water injection system are you looking at Jeff, Aquamist? Boost-pressure switched? I thought it would be nice to have on the Supra as well. One side-benefit is the combustion chambers stay clean to help reduce detonation; almost like running seafoam through your engine everytime the boost comes up.


2000 4Runner | 5-speed | E-locker | Tundra/OME 2" lift | Stubbs Sliders | Deckplate/TrueFlow |

#694532 - 02/09/06 10:39 PM Re: New dyno numbers [pointless brag post] [Re: BoostedInline6]  
mosk  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,059
Belmont, CA, USA
Yes, Aquamist. Actually, I've already purchased an Aquamist 2D system. It's a bit complicated to install, as it has multiple layers of safety checks, but after doing the research it seemed to be the best system out there. What I liked about it was that it wasn't a fixed flow system, but one that varied the water injection to mirror the fuel injection. It also has a fantastic reputation as a quality product. A lot of the WI setups, even the commercial ones, are just a step or two above home-brew. There's nothing wrong with that, but given my ridiculous investment in this project, I wanted to use something that has a reputation for quality and effectiveness.

So that's the good news. The "bad" news is that it really is a complicated installation. I'm about half done: I removed the stock windshield washer tank and replaced it with one from a 1998 4Runner. This tucks very nicely under the passenger-side fenderwell and looks stock. Because this is a 4Runner tank, it has two pumps. I'm using one for the stock front windshield sprayers, and the other to feed an interim tank (already built and installed), which is mounted high in the engine compartment. The interim tank then gravity feeds the actual WI injection pump. The interim tank has several water level switches in it -- one to force a refill from the lower tank, and another as a safety shut-off if I run out of water.

In addition to this basic water level check, the Aquamist also has a provision for a flow-based sensor, a small, enclosed turbine that measures actual rate of flow to the injector nozzle. If THIS sensor reports a failure in flow rate, such as from a clogged injector or severed line, it will also shut down the system. "Shutting down the system" simply means disabling the electronic boost controller, so I fall back to the mechanical boost controller on the external wastegate. This is set to a very safe 3 psi.

The system has an onset point trigger as well, and I will probably set this to 7 psi or so.

In addition to the under-the-hood components, there are also a gaggle of dash mounted LEDs and displays. Like most of this project, it is probably overkill, but I was very uneasy with the simpler systems that didn't have these various safety checks built-in. Peace of mind is important, especially if you know that a failed WI system will cause your motor to beat itself to death in short order.

Anyway, that's what's on deck now that I have the turbo done and the truck retuned (and running great!) Hopefully, I'll have this system ready to go in a month or two. And when the WI is done (and retuned), I will be done with modifying the motor. Really <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

BTW, I think this setup would be a great addition to your Supra. If you haven't already, check out the aquamist-sponsord water injection forum: http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=730b9d01569fac4a311c670808f9f1e6 I believe you need to join to view the posts, but membership is free, and it is one of the better forums I've participated in for exchanging this sort of information.


Jeff Moskovitz
1986 turbo 4X4 truck
1998 2.7L/M5 4X4 4Runner

Jeff's 22R-TE page

22RTE Turbo Truck Forum (advertising free)

#694533 - 02/09/06 10:49 PM Re: New dyno numbers [pointless brag post] [Re: mosk]  
mosk  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,059
Belmont, CA, USA
I realized that I had a few pictures I could link to, so here they are.

The 4Runner windshield tank mounted under the stock fenderwell (basically beneath the battery tray location:

[Linked Image]

The "interim" tank I built:

[Linked Image]

The sub-assembly I built with the pump, high speed injector, flow sensor, accumulator, and pressure switch:

[Linked Image]

Some shots of the interim tank and pump assembly mounted:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Crazy? Perhaps...


Jeff Moskovitz
1986 turbo 4X4 truck
1998 2.7L/M5 4X4 4Runner

Jeff's 22R-TE page

22RTE Turbo Truck Forum (advertising free)

#694534 - 02/10/06 12:29 AM Re: New dyno numbers [pointless brag post] [Re: mosk]  
BoostedInline6  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,205
N. California
Nice work as always Jeff. One of the stumbling blocks I've found is mounting an adequate-sized reservoir above the pump. I'm not sure if aquamist requires this orientation, but gravity flow to the pump seems important for instant response. In my case, all of this plumbing must be removeable for smog inspections.

When you say a failed water injection system will kill your motor in a hurry, I assume you mean from too much water "hydraulicing" the motor? I would use it to reduce detonation, but I don't necessarily see myself turning up the boost more and relying on it to protect my motor.

What type of boost controller are you running? I use a Greddy Profec B and I'm not sure it's possible to get the aquamist system to "talk" to my particular boost controller. I suppose it might be as simple as taking power away from the unit and boost will therefore revert to stock wastegate spring specs. Interesting setup you're planning; I look forward to hearing/seeing more as the progress develops.

Is that a serial port I see on the unit?

Ken

Last edited by BoostedInline6; 02/10/06 12:31 AM.

2000 4Runner | 5-speed | E-locker | Tundra/OME 2" lift | Stubbs Sliders | Deckplate/TrueFlow |

#694535 - 02/10/06 01:02 AM Re: New dyno numbers [pointless brag post] [Re: BoostedInline6]  
mosk  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,059
Belmont, CA, USA
Thanks, Ken.

Quote
One of the stumbling blocks I've found is mounting an adequate-sized reservoir above the pump. I'm not sure if aquamist requires this orientation, but gravity flow to the pump seems important for instant response.


While you don't have to mount the reservoir above the pump, it is BY FAR the way to go if at all possible; from my understanding, it makes everything else a whole lot easier. I've seen some interesting setups that had the reservoir mounted remotely and below the pump, but these seemed to require even more Rube Goldberg-style manipulations to get the water in the right place. So being able to gravity feed the pump is one of my design goals for my system.

Quote
you say a failed water injection system will kill your motor in a hurry, I assume you mean from too much water "hydraulicing" the motor? I would use it to reduce detonation, but I don't necessarily see myself turning up the boost more and relying on it to protect my motor.


Well...I want to use it to increase my spark advance (and probably pull out some fuel, too). I don't run a knock sensor, so if my WI fails at high boost/under load I will knock or worse. I don't plan on running more boost, but at the same time, I can't afford to have it fail. FWIW, I will be injecting water well below, in front of, and away from the TB, so I am not worried about hydrolocking the motor; it will melt long before it drowns, lol.

Quote
What type of boost controller are you running? I use a Greddy Profec B and I'm not sure it's possible to get the aquamist system to "talk" to my particular boost controller. I suppose it might be as simple as taking power away from the unit and boost will therefore revert to stock wastegate spring specs. Interesting setup you're planning; I look forward to hearing/seeing more as the progress develops.


That sentence, "I suppose it might be as simple as taking power away from the unit and boost will therefore revert to stock wastegate spring specs," is exactly what I'm planing. I'm currently running an HKS EVC EZ, but I picked up one of the TurboSmart e-Boost controllers and will be running that when I switch over to WI. One of the nice things about the e-Boost is that it has a user-programmable, boost controlled "event switch" that you can use to trigger something. I'll be using this output to trigger the WI when boost reaches 7 psi. The stock Aquamist onset pressure switch is an analog switch manipulated with a set screw, so I figure the eBoost will give me more precision. It's also supposed to be very good at eliminating boost creep, reducing spoolup time, whitening your teeth, etc.

Alternatively, AquaMist sells a solenoid valve you can splice into your wastegate signal hose that will vent your boost to atmo if necessary. I may have to do this if the TurboSmart device doesn't respond well to having its power cut suddently.

I'll keep you posted when I make some more progress.

-Jeff


Jeff Moskovitz
1986 turbo 4X4 truck
1998 2.7L/M5 4X4 4Runner

Jeff's 22R-TE page

22RTE Turbo Truck Forum (advertising free)

#694536 - 02/10/06 04:15 AM Re: New dyno numbers [pointless brag post] [Re: mosk]  
Anonymous
Unregistered

jeff did you see my question about the TEC kit ? i guess no one cares...


#694537 - 02/10/06 04:53 AM Re: New dyno numbers [pointless brag post]  
mosk  Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,059
Belmont, CA, USA
Quote
jeff did you see my question about the TEC kit ? i guess no one cares...


sorry, it got lost in the mix.

Quote
hey jeff ,did you ever install a TEC turbo kit ? i got one off e bay and i am missing a couple of parts for it ,the banjo for the oil line and the oil return tube , how much improvement was the tec compaired to stock? I am doing an engine rebuild right now ,and i'm looking at all the options


No, I've never installed a TEC kit. Missing the banjo may not be a big deal -- if it's just the bolt, you should be able to get a new one from the dealer. If it's a particular fitting, well, that may be more work. As for the missing oil return fitting, that's going to be a problem. The TEC piece is two parts with a short (2"?) hose between them. The part that attaches to the block has a fitting with a mounting flange that is parallel to the ground, with a stubby, curved pipe that rises up/out at a 45-ish angle. The turbo half of this fitting is almost identical, however, the mounting flange is rotated 90.

Have you tried calling TEC to see if they will sell you just the missing pieces? Once upon a time, I was able to buy the oil return fittings on their own (which is how I know about them), but I don't have them any more.

Regarding improvement, I assume you've read the now-classic Turbo magazine article on the kit? Here's the link: http://www.greenhydrant.com/~drees/auto/celica/turboupgrade.php

Also, Bruce Hawkins has a some pics of the kit on his site: http://www.bchawkins.com/tec_pics/tec_pics.html He's someone who actually has the kit and did the installation, so I believe he can answer your questions better than I can.

Hope this helps,

-Jeff


Jeff Moskovitz
1986 turbo 4X4 truck
1998 2.7L/M5 4X4 4Runner

Jeff's 22R-TE page

22RTE Turbo Truck Forum (advertising free)

#694538 - 02/10/06 12:57 PM Re: New dyno numbers [pointless brag post] [Re: mosk]  
Anonymous
Unregistered

Thanks ,yea i can get the parts from then ,the turbo should be rebuilt before i installit anyway so thats not a big deal ,just wondering if any one personally has ever installed one on a almost stock truck . i know the mag artical said its a good bit of differance ,but you know how magazine's are ..lol thanks .


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