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Timing Chain Slap after 20,000 miles on rebuilt '85 22R #715544 04/14/06 02:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 675
M
mnwolftrack Offline OP
Rock Warrior
After only 20,000 miles on a new (locally rebuilt) 22R in my 1985 pickup, the timing chain is starting to slap and I am quite peeved! The trouble is, the guides are still completely intact. The chain noise happens only at a specific time, when the engine is revved and held around 2200RPM. It does not make the noise at idle or higher than 2200RPM, and does not do it if I blip the throttle (like would if the guides were wasted). I noticed the noise today while cruising for a short stretch at 30mph in 3rd gear today in city roads. (otherwise, I am mainly on the freeway and not cruising at that speed or RPM).

I'm not sure what went wrong at this point, other than I'll likely have to tear the whole thing apart again....

About 4 years ago I pulled the 22R motor in my '85 pickup and had a local shop do a basic rebuild. It was burning oil, and the OEM plastic chain guides were starting to break (133,000 miles, of which were 40,000 miles riding on 33's with 4.10 gears). The timing chain never hit the timing cover. I should have known this was destined for doom from the start, as they gave me the engine back for me to install and it wasn't until I was bolting up the exhaust manifold (the very last step for me!) that they put the wrong cylinder head back on! They gave me a pre-1985 head, and mine takes the newer style head, so the exhaust ports were different and the bolt locations also different. I removed the wrong head, got a new one with new gasket sets, and put the correct head back on....

This just started recently, if not today. And like I said, the truck has 20,000 miles on this new engine, and the guides are 100% intact. I'm not sure what on earth it could be hitting, but I am sure it is timing chain slap. Any guidance would be much appreciated. I drove the truck home and put insurance back on my '90 4Runner and the '85 pickup will be parked for the summer.... I drive the pickup in the winter and the 4runner in the summer and it's close enough to summer. I have no intention of breaking a chain and causing more damage. If I pull this thing apart I will end up pulling the head, pan, and everything off again anyway becuase just about every gasket is leaking too, thanks to the rebuild shop (note to self, do not go back there).

From the Off-Road World
Re: Timing Chain Slap after 20,000 miles on rebuilt '85 22R [Re: mnwolftrack] #715545 04/14/06 03:11 AM
Anonymous
Unregistered
what could the chain be hitting if the guides are intact?are there marks on the cover and where?
maybe its just timing that sounds like the right rpms for it to be off. just a suggestion. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Re: Timing Chain Slap after 20,000 miles on rebuilt '85 22R [Re: mnwolftrack] #715546 04/14/06 03:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 15,887
kewlynx Offline
Toyota & Classifieds Moderator
*****
Do you know whether the tensioner was replaced or not?


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Re: Timing Chain Slap after 20,000 miles on rebuilt '85 22R [Re: kewlynx] #715547 04/14/06 02:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 675
M
mnwolftrack Offline OP
Rock Warrior
That's just it--I'm not sure what the chain could be hitting, but it is the chain. Short of running the engine with the valve cover off (not a good idea), I'm not sure how else I'll be able to figure it out. I've owned over 30+ Toyotas and have had several engines rebuilt (=lots of experience with broken chain guides), but I've never had one do this. And of course, it has to occur on my "baby" that I've owned for 15 years and don't ever plan to sell.

The engine was a complete rebuild. While the engine wasn't wasted, I figured since I had to have a valve job done and replace the timing chain, I might as well just yank the whole engine. I find it is often easier just to do that rather than try to take everything apart while in the truck.

All of the typical internals were replaced, including larger pistons, bearings, rods, gaskets, and timing chain set.

I was doing some research after I posted last night, and I read another recent post about a timing replacment gone wrong, and in that case the wrong length bolt was put in the oil pump and was seizing up the tensioner. I don't know if that's my issue, and I don't know how to check for that short of pulling the tensioner out and inspecting it.

Since this machine shop put the wrong cylinder head on my engine in the first place and didn't even know there were different style 22Rx heads (even after I explained it to them), I wouldn't put it passed them to screw up the bolt sequence. But again, I don't know if that's the problem.

Last edited by ShawnF; 04/14/06 02:37 PM.
Re: Timing Chain Slap after 20,000 miles on rebuilt '85 22R [Re: mnwolftrack] #715548 04/14/06 04:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 197
Cholltero Offline
Wheeler
Shawn :some of the aftermarket tensioners have a softer composite on the chain contact end and tend to wear much faster than OEM . Did you use a toyota tensioner or was it part of a kit? Just rebuilt my 6th or 7th 22r and I could dent the tensioner, that came with the Rock kit I bought, with my fingernail .

I think there also is a big difference in the quality of the chains - some are softer and seem to stretch more than others .

Not sure of a cure . Perhaps a double roller and steel guides would be the next best to a gear drive bit I don't think anyone makes that


85' 4x4 e-cab flatbed 22r carb ((SOLD))
86' 4runner, 22re , "60 buck truck"
95' 4runner, 22re,5sd, last of the good ones
02' Tacoma prerunner, 2.7L, 5spd., 4x4
Re: Timing Chain Slap after 20,000 miles on rebuilt '85 22R [Re: mnwolftrack] #715549 04/14/06 04:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 514
grandeyota Offline
Rock Warrior
Just a thought on what might be hitting. I had a t-chain cover that had a chain that was way loose with the guides broken all the way. Not the case here, but it's something else that hit so I thought I'd add. The chain had broken off part of the cover on the bottom. It's like a guide cast into the cover. Here is where I'm talking about, where the red dot is, but on the back side where the chain is.

[Linked Image]

I wish I had a better picture, but I broke my digital camera.

Again, just an idea of somewhere it could hit.


Fur clog in the sausage grinder
Re: Timing Chain Slap after 20,000 miles on rebuilt '85 22R [Re: Cholltero] #715550 04/14/06 04:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 70
ToyinAround Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Did you keep the same timing chain that was on there with the wrong head?
i hope not, because i bought a truck a few years ago that had the same thing happen to it. The owner told me that the TC had broke and it had a rebuilt head on it so we tried to put a TC kit on it that i had and it wouldn't even come close to gettin up on the cam so we tried a old streched chain and still no go so we knew something was fishy because we saw a bunch of pry marks on the end of the head. then we finally pulled the motor and yanked the head and found the dome top head on the newer motor IDIOTS!

So thats why i hope you changed the chain because if you didn't i'll bet the chain is lose as hell because they really had to strech the hell out of that chain to get it on that head because the older heads are taller. makes me wonder how well that truck ran before the TC broke, way oversized combustion chamber so no power, and it was on 33's with stock gears....
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" />


1987 4Runner SR5,SAS,6 inches of lift,35in BFG's,Welded Front,Detroit E-Z locker V-6 Rear, 5.29's

Re: Timing Chain Slap after 20,000 miles on rebuilt '85 22R [Re: Cholltero] #715551 04/14/06 06:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 675
M
mnwolftrack Offline OP
Rock Warrior
The tensioner would have been part of an entire new timing kit (guides, gears, tensioner, etc...) that the shop got for me. I didn't pick the brands and just told them to rebuild it for me. I wasn't looking to do anything fancy at the time, becuase I was more along the lines of thinking I would do a Supra inline 6 swap in a few years (but I lost interest). I planned to sell this 22R when I put an I6 in, but that won't be happening now. In my '90 4Runner, I had the same shop build the 22RE but I picked out most of the parts myself such as a DOA timing set with steel guides (very nice kit with OEM parts).

The timing kit that was installed ought to be the right one because I noticed it didn't feel "normal" when I pulled cam gear off to pull the incorrect head off. The chain was either too tight or too loose, I don't remember. I hadn't inspected the chain sooner when the incorrect head was installed because I didn't think I had a reason to. Things went back together "normal" with the correct head, and it ran quite well and am guessing the wrong chain kit wouldn't have allowed it to run or run normal.

Thanks for the information and picture--it gives me a better base to work with.

Re: Timing Chain Slap after 20,000 miles on rebuilt '85 22R [Re: mnwolftrack] #715552 04/16/06 01:54 PM
Anonymous
Unregistered


the bolt hat would hang up the tensioner is the one at the top of the oil pump...directly above the red dot in that pic in the post above...easy to mix up a bolt on this job, if the longer bolt is put in there is will bind the tensioner and then the chain will go to slop with no tension on it.


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