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Re: This isn't good... transfer case problems [Re: BigSwede] #752043
09/19/06 02:47 PM
09/19/06 02:47 PM
pucci  Offline
Rock Warrior
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 846
AZ
but the guts will


2.6 Trooper
2.0 Impulse Turbo
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Re: This isn't good... transfer case problems [Re: pucci] #752044
09/19/06 02:54 PM
09/19/06 02:54 PM
mlclark  Offline
Isuzu Moderator
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,268
Ventura County *****
The problem is the most important "gut" piece is the one from Tera...

Michael

Re: This isn't good... transfer case problems [Re: mlclark] #752045
09/19/06 04:14 PM
09/19/06 04:14 PM
strawmyers  Offline OP
Isuzu Moderator
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,016
Lafayette, IN
I got the outer ball bearing off of the main shaft by sticking a pry bar in the puller and binding it against the body of the truck. Still having trouble getting the staked nut loosened... everything just spins with relative ease (yes, the truck is in gear). Part of the reason its holding on so well may be that the shop that did the gears 'staked' the nut in about 5 different places... but they didn't stake the front output flange nut at all... so I guess they even eachother out <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> They also 'staked' the nut on top of the threads instead of in the valleys between the splines; making it rather impossible to actually 'unstake' anything. I think I'll reinstall the front driveshaft and lock my hubs in... hopefully that will provide enough resistance to get the nut loose. Either that, or it will pull the truck off of the jack stands when I turn the main shaft. Should be a fun experiment.

I popped out the roll pin to avoid removing the shift rail; but it looks like I'll have to remove the shift rail to put the roll pin back in place. Seems like there are really no shortcuts to this process. I've never removed a roll pin before. Mine came out inner piece first, and then outer sleeve. I assume they are to come out as one piece. Are they a part that should be replaced each time, or can I push the pieces back together and re-use the old one?

If everything came off easily, I really believe this could be a 2-3 hour project. Glad I have this week off before I start up at the new place next week. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, my Amigo is a manual. I do appreciate the offer, though. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


Sean Strawmyer
Back and ready to rock...... crawl.

From Indiana or surrounding states and interested in wheelin'? Check out www.mwior.com

Re: This isn't good... transfer case problems [Re: mlclark] #752046
09/19/06 05:13 PM
09/19/06 05:13 PM
RobG  Offline
Roll Me Over
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,277
Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Quote
The problem is the most important "gut" piece is the one from Tera...


yea, and Tera was actually cool enough to sell me the single replacement gear... couldn't have asked for better customer service.

Sean, you can reuse the rollpins, no problem. They are supposed to come out in two pieces.

-Rob

Re: This isn't good... transfer case problems [Re: strawmyers] #752047
09/19/06 05:32 PM
09/19/06 05:32 PM
BigSwede  Offline
Roll Me Over
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,702
Minnetonka, Minnesota
They also 'staked' the nut on top of the threads instead of in the valleys between the splines; making it rather impossible to actually 'unstake' anything.
When I did mine I didn't have any luck getting the dimple out of the staked nut. I ended up sort of drilling the dimple out, taking care not to get into the shaft itself... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I think I'll reinstall the front driveshaft and lock my hubs in... hopefully that will provide enough resistance to get the nut loose. Either that, or it will pull the truck off of the jack stands when I turn the main shaft. Should be a fun experiment.
I think I had to do that to. But I never took the front driveshaft off, so it worked better...

I popped out the roll pin to avoid removing the shift rail; but it looks like I'll have to remove the shift rail to put the roll pin back in place.
If you are going to start messing with the shift rails don't forget about the switch plunger on the side of the t-case...and get a slender magnetic pick-up tool to extract the detent balls from their cubbyholes...or just flick them out the rail hole like we did and hope you can find them wherever they end up... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" />

Seems like there are really no shortcuts to this process.
Like I said...voice of experience here, been there done that <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />

I've never removed a roll pin before. Mine came out inner piece first, and then outer sleeve. I assume they are to come out as one piece. Are they a part that should be replaced each time, or can I push the pieces back together and re-use the old one?
Yep like Rob said, just reassemble and reuse.

If everything came off easily, I really believe this could be a 2-3 hour project.
Yep, right about the time you finish the dang thing you know you will be able to do again in 1/10 the time...FWIW <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and when you get to reinstalling the big snap ring behind the idler assembly, it REALLY helps to have a second person up top with a long screwdriver through the shifter hole to hold the top of the snap ring into the groove area...only takes a few minutes that way. By yourself, you might get lucky or you might cuss at the thing for hours before giving up, even using the zip tie technique.

And speaking of the zip tie technique, a blow torch is not necessary to cut the tie (though certainly an option), one of those long butane charcoal lighters works fine.

Last edited by BigSwede; 09/19/06 05:39 PM.

Steve Carlson - 95 Trooper LS expo rig
Serenity now!
Re: This isn't good... transfer case problems [Re: BigSwede] #752048
09/19/06 06:39 PM
09/19/06 06:39 PM
strawmyers  Offline OP
Isuzu Moderator
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,016
Lafayette, IN
Word of advice to the next person doing this project:

***JUST TAKE OUT THE SHIFT RAIL***

As stated above, I pushed out the roll pin holding the hi/lo shift fork onto its respective rail. This was done with the intention of pulling the yolk/clutch assembly/lo gear as one unit. Unfortunately, I wasn't really watching the shift fork while pulling everything; which was happening pretty quickly as I used an inpact wrench. Everything came off... but I ended up snapping the shift fork in half. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> The remaining 1/2 is still firmly attached to the shift rail. Can I pull that rail without messing with the rest of them? Not sure that I want to know how much that shift fork is going to cost to replace <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/baby.gif" alt="" />


The good news, though, is that the bearing surfaces on both the collar and the gear look fine... which surprised the heck out of me given the growling sound that made me pull over ASAP. That little BB was nowhere to be found; so the shop must not have realized its importance. Given the above story by Rob, I'm surprised I went this many years without problems. The plastic aspect of the needle bearing assembly must have evaporated... there's not a bit of it to be found anywhere.

I originally intended to replace the two seals between the tranny/tcase while I was in this far; but the one I can see still looks fresh-out-of-the-box new and they aren't leaking; so I could probably only make the situation worse by messing with them.

I didn't have to do anything with the idler gear to pull the 4Lo gear off; but that may have been because of the large amout of free play allowed by the missing bearings. Guess I'll find out upon reassembly. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Huge THANK YOU to everyone for their help so far. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


Sean Strawmyer
Back and ready to rock...... crawl.

From Indiana or surrounding states and interested in wheelin'? Check out www.mwior.com

Re: This isn't good... transfer case problems [Re: strawmyers] #752049
09/19/06 07:24 PM
09/19/06 07:24 PM
strawmyers  Offline OP
Isuzu Moderator
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,016
Lafayette, IN
Just out of curiosity, how much force do those shift forks need to be able to withstand? Mine is still 1/2 in-tact... I'm considering having the broken 1/2 TIG welded back into place. The piece appears to be cast aluminum; I don't know if there are issues with welding it similar to those when welding cast iron. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> St Charles has been giving a busy signal for the past couple of hours; so I don't know what a new one costs yet. I PM'd Jerry as well to see if he has a used piece laying around.

I took some pictures; but photobucket isn't letting me sign in at the moment. And Michael would only make fun of my crappy picture taking abilities (or lack thereof) anyway. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

[edit]finally got logged in. Here is the broken piece:

[Linked Image]

Last edited by strawmyers; 09/19/06 07:40 PM.

Sean Strawmyer
Back and ready to rock...... crawl.

From Indiana or surrounding states and interested in wheelin'? Check out www.mwior.com

Re: This isn't good... transfer case problems [Re: strawmyers] #752050
09/19/06 07:56 PM
09/19/06 07:56 PM
RobG  Offline
Roll Me Over
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,277
Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Quote
Mine is still 1/2 in-tact... I'm considering having the broken 1/2 TIG welded back into place.


an experience welder could probably take care of that... there isn't a ton of force on it (not like its a structural part).

but Sean, PM me offline... i have to look around the garage a bit, but I may be able to help you out with your little problem.

-Rob

Re: This isn't good... transfer case problems [Re: strawmyers] #752051
09/19/06 08:00 PM
09/19/06 08:00 PM
BigSwede  Offline
Roll Me Over
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,702
Minnetonka, Minnesota
I pushed out the roll pin holding the hi/lo shift fork onto its respective rail. This was done with the intention of pulling the yolk/clutch assembly/lo gear as one unit. Unfortunately, I wasn't really watching the shift fork while pulling everything; which was happening pretty quickly as I used an inpact wrench. Everything came off... but I ended up snapping the shift fork in half.
Wow, deja vu all over again...sort of. During my early attempts to pull all the stuff at once as per the Teralow instructions, I nearly did the same thing. Fortunately I was not using an impact wrench and had time to notice that the shift fork was not clearing the idler gear and was under great strain. Frankly, I don't think it can come off together without removing the idler gear and other stuff...or breaking the shift fork (or yolk as I called it) <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" />

The remaining 1/2 is still firmly attached to the shift rail.
If the roll pin is out you should be able to get the rest off, unless you have fuse-welded it to the shaft somehow... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />

Can I pull that rail without messing with the rest of them?
That hi/lo rail is the Teralow kit-supplied rail, and it is cut to clear the larger idler gear. In other words, you cannot pull it out much without hitting the idler gear. Doh. So, you will have to pull the idler gear after all. I think you would have to do that anyway to get everything back together (you will with an intact shift fork, anyway <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> ).

Not sure that I want to know how much that shift fork is going to cost to replace
Call/email Jerry Lemond on that.

That little BB was nowhere to be found; so the shop must not have realized its importance.
As you may recall, I lost the BB from my t-case <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" /> ...the BB is 4mm. At my local hardware store, they didn't have metric ball bearings but they did have 5/32 size which converts to 3.96875 millimeters - close enough <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Even a standard .177 gun BB will work, according to Jerry Lemond.

Sean, I know you are trying like heck to avoid removing everything, but this voice of experience says you eventually will have to...it just interlocks so much that you end up there against your will.


Steve Carlson - 95 Trooper LS expo rig
Serenity now!
Re: This isn't good... transfer case problems [Re: BigSwede] #752052
09/19/06 08:23 PM
09/19/06 08:23 PM
strawmyers  Offline OP
Isuzu Moderator
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,016
Lafayette, IN
Quote
If the roll pin is out you should be able to get the rest off, unless you have fuse-welded it to the shaft somehow... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />


It slid back to an extent and then got hung up. I think the hole through which the roll pin goes may have a bur or something that snagged it. Definitely not fuse-welded... but something is keeping the remaining piece firmly in place.


Quote
Can I pull that rail without messing with the rest of them?
That hi/lo rail is the Teralow kit-supplied rail, and it is cut to clear the larger idler gear. In other words, you cannot pull it out much without hitting the idler gear. Doh. So, you will have to pull the idler gear after all. I think you would have to do that anyway to get everything back together (you will with an intact shift fork, anyway <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> ).


I'm fine with pulling the idler gear... it does't really seem like that big of an issue (famous last words, right). I'm more trying to avoid pulling the other shift rails/forks. From the way the layout in the shop manual looks, I should be able to just pull the interlock pin/spring to remove the Hi/Lo rail independent of the others.


Quote
Not sure that I want to know how much that shift fork is going to cost to replace
Call/email Jerry Lemond on that.


Already on top of that one; sent him a PM earlier today. If anyone will have a shift fork randomly laying around, its Jerry <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I called St Charles and they didn't have any and couldn't get them; but found two other dealerships that had one apiece for $50. I'm waiting to see what Jerry and/or Rob find laying around their shops; but $50 for a brand-new piece is worthwhile money over having mine TIG'd together IMHO. I'd always worry about it breaking and trashing the whole case. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" />


Quote
At my local hardware store, they didn't have metric ball bearings but they did have 5/32 size which converts to 3.96875 millimeters - close enough <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Even a standard .177 gun BB will work, according to Jerry Lemond.


I found that little piece of info in another thread during my "pre-project search-fest"... I believe you were the person who posted it in that thread as well. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Quote
Sean, I know you are trying like heck to avoid removing everything, but this voice of experience says you eventually will have to...it just interlocks so much that you end up there against your will.


Yeah, looks like it has gotten to that point.


Sean Strawmyer
Back and ready to rock...... crawl.

From Indiana or surrounding states and interested in wheelin'? Check out www.mwior.com

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