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Re: Truck keeps cutting out....stumped? [Re: 87Toy4x4] #776081 01/04/07 07:17 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,674
stock87 Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Quote
after i read almost every single post on 4x4wire regarding the egr, im almost positive my egr valve is sticking open and causing my truck to die. but because my truck has had a slight miss at almost all rpm's even before this started, it leads me to believe my egr was stuck shut before. i wish thief was still around so he could give me some insight. i should mention that before i put on my eb street rv head and 268 cam my truck ran smoothly. so my cam likely plays a large part in my problem.

im running a carter electric fuel pump so i dont have any weep holes.

how do you fix a sticky needle valve, carb rebuild?

when you asked if my carb bolts are tight, that made me wonder. when i hit the gas my carb makes a sucking sound, almost like an air leak, just like the intake on my moms v8 camaro which has a k&n intake kit. but my truck didnt always do this.


Keep us posted on what happens with this... the problems I've been having may be related to the EGR system as well, and I'd like to hear what you come up with as a solution.

Be sure to check the EGR modulator too:

Quote
EGR backpressure transducers are nothing new. Stand-alone EGR transducers first appeared in the earlier 1970s on domestic engines. Later on, newer domestic EGR valves designs eliminated the stand-alone transducer.

But today, nearly any Toyota, Lexus, Suzuki and many Mazda engines still have a separate EGR transducer (refer to the accompanying photograph). Shop manuals
may call this transducer and EGR vacuum modulator valve. Although this transducer works basically the same way a domestic unit does, many technicians overlook it when they troubleshoot a Japanese EGR system. Then they replace the EGR valve for a problem that is actually rooted in the transducer.

A backpressure transducer improves driveability by regulating EGR operation according to engine load. It does this by sensing exhaust gas backpressure and adjusting the amount of vacuum that goes to the EGR valve diaphragm.

The EGR transducer, which is spliced into the carburetor-to-EGR valve vacuum hose, has a spring-loaded bleed valve inside it. This bleed vavle leaks off the vacuum signal to the EGR valve. Therefore, the farther the bleed opens, the weaker the vacuum signal to the EGR valve and the less EGR flow the engine receives. Naturally, closing the bleed valve creates the strongest vacuum signal and maximum EGR flow.

The transducer senses exhaust backpressure through a hose connected to the bottom of the transducer. This backpressure operates the bleed valve. Under lighter engine loads, exhaust backpressure is relatively weak, so the spring loaded bleed valve remains open and weakens the EGR vacuum signal. As engine
load increases, exhaust backpressure increases, closes the bleed valve, and
strengthens the EGR vacuum signal.

A typical domestic EGR backpressure transducer only has one vacuum supply hose, but this Japanese unit has two. One hose feeds a ported vacuum signal to the modulator port that's usually marked P or 2. The other supply hose feeds venturi vacuum to the modulator marked R or 1. Under certain engine loads, the second vacuum signal boosts or helps the first one operate the EGR valve.

Check hoses first.

Whenever you check an EGR problem and you see an EGR vacuum modulator on the engine, be sure its vacuum hoses are routed correctly before you proceed. If someone has reversed the vacuum supply hoses at the modulator, the modulator will open the EGR valve too soon and make the engine hesitate, stumble, or surge.

Testing the EGR modulator is similar to testing a domestic unit. With the engine warmed up and idling, there should be no vacuum at the modulator's outlet port (usually marked Q or 3). When you rev the engine to about 2000 RPM, you should see a vacuum reading at the outlet port. If you don't see a vacuum reading, check for a clogged exhaust port before you condemn the modulator. A clogged port would prevent exhaust backpressure from closing the modulator's bleed valve. Meanwhile, a partially restricted port--or a substantial reduction in exhaust backpressure--may upset the modulator's calibration and weaken the vacuum signal to the EGR valve. This would reduce EGR flow and could cause the engine to ping.

Suppose the hoses are routed correctly and everything tests good so far but the engine still has an off-idle stumble or low-speed surge. Tee a vacuum gauge between the EGR modulator and the EGR valve. Watch the gauge while you road test the car. When you see a vacuum reading with just a tiny bit of gas pedal movement, the modulator is usually bad.

Remember that a restricted exhaust system could increase backpressure enough to trick the modulator into opening the EGR valve too soon. During your road test, note how the car performs during heavy-throttle and wide-open throttle driving. Perform the vacuum gauge test for a restricted exhaust. Depending upon how the customer drives a car with a restricted exhaust, he may only notice the off-idle hesitation or low-speed surge!


My Truck: 1987 XtraCab DLX 22R 4WD 5 Speed Manual
--------------------
"Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary, that's what gets you." -Jeremy Clarkson
From the Off-Road World
Re: Truck keeps cutting out....stumped? [Re: stock87] #776082 01/04/07 09:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,287
4WD22R Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Easy fix for EGR issues.....take the damn thing off! I got a EGR block off kit from LCE for christmas....since installing it, the truck's idle has improved dramatically! Haven't noticed any negative or positive effects on gas mileage yet. I also got to remove a fair amount of vacuum spaghetti <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


-1986 TOYOTA
22R
ZUK coil rear
Torqued T-Bars
Marlin HD clutch

Newly rebuilt!! Runnin' like a champ!

AZTTORA #492
TLCA member

"I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft."
--George W. Bush
Re: Truck keeps cutting out....stumped? [Re: 87Toy4x4] #776083 01/04/07 11:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 675
M
mnwolftrack Offline
Rock Warrior
Personally, I'm leaning towards this issue being something else. I think it's more than coincidence that the heater is shutting off (and by this I assume you mean the fan is no longer blowing anything), and more than coincidence the battery light came on.

Have you had a load test on your battery or checked voltage with a multimeter at the battery with the engine off vs. while running? I'm almost wondering if the alternator brushes are starting to go. At times, they will make sufficient contact and charge the battery enough, but at other times they don't contact and the battery drains to the point the engine runs rough, headlights get real dim, etc....

Either way, I think more diagnosis is needed. Unless it was just coincidence, I don't see what an EGR failure would have to do with the heater or dash light.

Re: Truck keeps cutting out....stumped? [Re: mnwolftrack] #776084 01/05/07 02:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,010
87Toy4x4 Offline OP
Body Damage is Cool
i just mentioned the heater cutting off and the battery light b/c i thought it was weird. i've come to the conclusion that it has little to do w/ my truck cutting off. but i would still like to know why it happened.

i'm running an optima red top that i bought last march, i highly doubt that's the problem b/c my voltmeter is reading around 16 volts. not to mention i left my headlights on in my driveway on accident and didn't notice until 4 hours later on sunday. the truck still started right up.

im planning on putting a temporary block off plate on my egr so i can know for sure that's my problem b/c i think that my egr is staying halfway open all the time causing the miss.


87 22R PU, 2 body lift, 33 BFG muds, 4.88's, F&R Lock-Rights, Rancho Shocks, EB's Street RV Head w/ 268 Cam, LCE Header, 2" to 2 1/4" exhaust, Flowmaster 50 series, Magnaflow high flow cat, complete Herculined SR5 interior, V6 BB, MC, and calipers.
Re: Truck keeps cutting out....stumped? [Re: 87Toy4x4] #776085 01/09/07 07:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,010
87Toy4x4 Offline OP
Body Damage is Cool
if you listen closely in this video you can here the missfire of my engine. thought this might help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPK9Ly0Zohw
*you can here it a lot better if you have a subwoofer and the volume turned up real loud lol.

Last edited by 87Toy4x4; 01/09/07 07:15 AM.

87 22R PU, 2 body lift, 33 BFG muds, 4.88's, F&R Lock-Rights, Rancho Shocks, EB's Street RV Head w/ 268 Cam, LCE Header, 2" to 2 1/4" exhaust, Flowmaster 50 series, Magnaflow high flow cat, complete Herculined SR5 interior, V6 BB, MC, and calipers.
Re: Truck keeps cutting out....stumped? [Re: 87Toy4x4] #776086 01/09/07 06:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,399
ArbitraryNotion Offline
Body Damage is Cool
I'd like to see some compression numbers. Also what your timing is set at. I've been fighting my dad's 32/36 for the last week due to it not idling at all. Very strange.

Random shutdowns really sounds like grounding issues. You'd be surprised the effects of bad grounds.

When you say the heater turns off you mean that fan stops right? or do you mean that it starts running cold? No carb problem will cause your heater to stop working.


1986 Toyota 4x4 22wEBer
Ported EB Offroad H/O Head "Josh Cam"
Ported Intake & Weber38mm Carb
LCE Header & 2.25in Exhaust
RB 1" BL, RS5000, SAW Tbars

2011 FJ Cruiser - SOLD
Re: Truck keeps cutting out....stumped? [Re: ArbitraryNotion] #776087 01/09/07 11:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,010
87Toy4x4 Offline OP
Body Damage is Cool
when i say the heater cuts out i mean the fans stop spinning but if i switch vent i still get hot air. im running 2 gauge grounds from the block to the battery and from the cylinder to the firewall so i think grounding is out of the question. they were just replaced last spring.

my timing was initially set at 0 deg., but engnbldr told me to advance it 2 deg. b/c my plugs werent running hot enough. but then it started pinging a little on the highway so i backed it off a little by ear and feel. i did notice that when i put a timing light on it, it jumps around a little bit b/c of the miss.

good to see youre still around arbitrary, i havent seen you post in a while. i know youre running the same carter electric fuel pump as me and i was wondering if me not running a thick enough power wire to it would cause this(i believe mine is 18 gauge). also, i was wondering if yours is on a switch, b/c my power wire is just plugged into an fuse on the kickpanel that is hot when the ignition is turned on. i am not running a fuel pressure regulator either b/c i was told that i dont need one w/ that pump.

Last edited by 87Toy4x4; 01/09/07 11:50 PM.

87 22R PU, 2 body lift, 33 BFG muds, 4.88's, F&R Lock-Rights, Rancho Shocks, EB's Street RV Head w/ 268 Cam, LCE Header, 2" to 2 1/4" exhaust, Flowmaster 50 series, Magnaflow high flow cat, complete Herculined SR5 interior, V6 BB, MC, and calipers.
Re: Truck keeps cutting out....stumped? [Re: 87Toy4x4] #776088 01/12/07 03:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,399
ArbitraryNotion Offline
Body Damage is Cool
I think I'm using standard speaker wire for it. It's been so long I'm not sure if I'm running it off of a relay or not. I don't think I am though, just ignition switched power. I'm not running a regulator either.


Pinging at 2 deg??? Thats not right at all. I mean at all. Even my Dad's 86 with 200k on the bottom end doesn't do that. I think I'm running 7deg+ I run 7-10 with my truck w/ my advanced cam gear. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/drunk.gif" alt="" /> You may be having some carbon buildup or simply running lean. What do your plugs look like?


When the engine is warm and running, place your hand over the carb intake. When you cut off some air, does it speed up, slow down or die alltogether? I'm really curious to know.

I know it's not that great of an indicator but where is temp needle at normal operating temps?



I still think your stalling is related to your fan going out. That just are really wierd coincedence.


1986 Toyota 4x4 22wEBer
Ported EB Offroad H/O Head "Josh Cam"
Ported Intake & Weber38mm Carb
LCE Header & 2.25in Exhaust
RB 1" BL, RS5000, SAW Tbars

2011 FJ Cruiser - SOLD
Re: Truck keeps cutting out....stumped? [Re: ArbitraryNotion] #776089 01/12/07 03:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,399
ArbitraryNotion Offline
Body Damage is Cool
another thing, check which cyl is missing... check the timing with each plug wire, see it any are erratic or not working at all.


1986 Toyota 4x4 22wEBer
Ported EB Offroad H/O Head "Josh Cam"
Ported Intake & Weber38mm Carb
LCE Header & 2.25in Exhaust
RB 1" BL, RS5000, SAW Tbars

2011 FJ Cruiser - SOLD
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