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3.4 oddness. Diagnose for me please. #899723 08/09/08 10:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,935
bkg Offline OP
Roll Me Over
cross-post from PBB...


The patient: 1996 T100, 3.4 (clearly), auto, 4x4 w/ 140K miles. Very clean truck for MN with zero rust, other than the standard chassis rust. Owner installed an aftermarket head unit and Envoy brake controller w/ 7 pin connector for pulling his small enclosed trailer. Truck is otherwise stock.

I've had the truck since January, and it's been driving fairly well. Averaging about 18.5 mpg. Truck received new wires, 2-electrode plugs, oil, filter, etc, etc this Spring.

I have a 2007 PJ 18' car trailer that I purchased brand new last year. Love it and it works well.

Last Friday (08/01), I put my John Deere 2305 on the trailer and pulled it over a friends house so he could do some garden work. Truck pulled it (about 1500-1600? lbs) w/o a problem. Parked the truck that night with the trailer connected and it sat until today.

Started it up today and it ran like CRAP. Felt like it was running on 4 cylinders - thought I lost a coil pack. Had to drive to my friend to pick up the tractor anyway, so I punted and drove it over. Trailer felt like 10K lbs behind me and I was getting no where fast. Check engine light turns on; solid first, then blinking. I count 5, 6, 12, 13, 21, and 33 blinks, roughly. Can't find anything obvious at his place.

Load up the tractor, get it back here and the truck is just hating me. As soon as there is load (hill, accelerating), the check engine light starts flashing. Unload tractor, park trailer and get ready to head to town to borrow a scanner from a parts store and prepare for the likelihood of having to buy coil packs at $150+ each.

But the truck is running great. Check engine light is still on, since it hadn't been cleared, but no flashing, no rough idle, no nothing. Runs like it normally does. WTF? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Scanner says miss-fire on cylinder #5. Haven't been able to get it to trip again since unplugging the trailer - it's running great.

What. The. Hell. ?????


Brian K. Gallus
I have nothing important to say.
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Re: 3.4 oddness. Diagnose for me please. [Re: bkg] #899724 08/10/08 01:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 658
wsquaredodie Offline
Rock Warrior
*****
No clear idea occurs other than the brake wiring has a partial short or some kind of interference with the engine firing system.Just blowing smoke here.


trafdlo
Re: 3.4 oddness. Diagnose for me please. [Re: wsquaredodie] #899725 08/10/08 02:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 104
L
lawnmowerman Offline
Wheeler
You say you put in new spark plugs.If they were not OEM spec (Denso or NGK) that is where I would start.

Re: 3.4 oddness. Diagnose for me please. [Re: bkg] #899726 08/10/08 02:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 447
E
eleet Offline
Mudrunner
^^^ What he said.. where did the parts come from, I want to know about the plug wires, too. Make sure those are properly fastened.

In the FSM there is a list of all the fault codes the computer can trip with information on each (how to fix, how fault is detected.) Reviewing this information will help you narrow the problem down - you can eliminate many conditions because all but one possible error was NOT logged.


97 T100 4x4
97 328i
95 540i restoration project
Re: 3.4 oddness. Diagnose for me please. [Re: eleet] #899727 08/10/08 06:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,935
bkg Offline OP
Roll Me Over
Quote
^^^ What he said.. where did the parts come from, I want to know about the plug wires, too. Make sure those are properly fastened.

In the FSM there is a list of all the fault codes the computer can trip with information on each (how to fix, how fault is detected.) Reviewing this information will help you narrow the problem down - you can eliminate many conditions because all but one possible error was NOT logged.


Plugs are NGK dual electrode as spec'd by the manual. Wires are Toyota. Everything worked fantastically from tune up until today with the trailer, and from the time I detached the trailer (put about 45 miles on since then). The only thing that "changed" is the attachment of the trailer and actual utilization of the brake controller. Nothing else has change, prior or since, the issue occurred.


Brian K. Gallus
I have nothing important to say.
Re: 3.4 oddness. Diagnose for me please. [Re: bkg] #899728 08/11/08 08:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,921
4
4xGeek Offline
Body Damage is Cool

x2 on the brake controller wiring... Doesn't sound like the load had anything to do with it (not like it was going ok, then suddenly...), so what else entered the equation?

Already run into a few electrical oddities with the whole 'switched-ground' concept Toyota utilizes... Gotta love the electrical gremlins! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


4xGeek (Chris)
'97 T-100 4wd sr5-suto, 3" BL, 1.5" BJ spacers, 35" ProComp AT's, 4.88's, Bilsteins x 6, etc...

No longer stuck in SoCal!! smile
Re: 3.4 oddness. Diagnose for me please. [Re: 4xGeek] #899729 08/11/08 10:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 658
wsquaredodie Offline
Rock Warrior
*****
My original thought was when he connected the trailer, he created a short to ground for part of the ignition system. That wonderful 4 wire system Toyota (and Mitsubishi at one time) used can be a real pain. So, when he connected the trailer, what is next to that wiring or incorporated with it that can kill a firing sequence?


trafdlo
Re: 3.4 oddness. Diagnose for me please. [Re: wsquaredodie] #899730 08/11/08 11:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,921
4
4xGeek Offline
Body Damage is Cool

The culprit may not be the ignition or fuel systems - I know the 'limp-home' mode can be brought on by an o2 sensor on the fritz; maybe a lot of other things too... I dunno. Just thinking an errant ground could have a lot more ramifications due to the Toyota switched-ground wiring schema.


4xGeek (Chris)
'97 T-100 4wd sr5-suto, 3" BL, 1.5" BJ spacers, 35" ProComp AT's, 4.88's, Bilsteins x 6, etc...

No longer stuck in SoCal!! smile
Re: 3.4 oddness. Diagnose for me please. [Re: 4xGeek] #899731 08/13/08 09:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,160
ErikB Offline
Toyota Moderator
Switched ground is a good thing.

Shorts are most likely to be to ground. A switched ground wire that gets shorted to ground will just turn something on (and likely continue to work), whereas a switched hot one would have blown a fuse (hopefully) and not be working at all. In Brian's case, he might have had a dead truck instead of a poorly running one.

Similarly, this is also the reason the FSM tells you to remove the *negative* battery terminal when working on your vehicle. That way when you drop a wrench onto the battery and its also touching the body or engine, the worst that would happen is you just hooked the battery back up, not shorted anything out. Positive to body does nothing, negative to body is normal operation (obviously you're SOL no matter what if you lay something directly across both terminals).
If you leave the negative hooked up, anything touching the positive terminal to the body or engine is a dead short across the battery and big sparks will fly.

Just because a switched ground confuses some people doesn't mean its a bad design. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Its actually quite common in other non-domestic vehicles and electronics.


'97 4Runner, '06 F350, '86 4Runner, '05 WR450
http://home.4x4wire.com/erik
Re: 3.4 oddness. Diagnose for me please. [Re: ErikB] #899732 08/14/08 07:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,921
4
4xGeek Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Suppose I should've clarified... No problem at all with switched-ground, just opposite from what I had known/learned & has caused me to scratch my head more than once, that's all. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


4xGeek (Chris)
'97 T-100 4wd sr5-suto, 3" BL, 1.5" BJ spacers, 35" ProComp AT's, 4.88's, Bilsteins x 6, etc...

No longer stuck in SoCal!! smile

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