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Re: Failed emissions test...again [Re: allochris] #930069 02/17/09 04:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 524
yodta Offline
Rock Warrior
Quote
on a similar note, is there a way to seal the exhaust manifold leak/downpipe w/o changing those donut gasket rings?

I put in new rings & it's still leaking. Is there some sort of gasket i can wrap around the seal outside (w/ hose clamp) that would work well at high temp (700c?) & high pulses?


Interesting & timely question.
I've been working with a local machine shop on a repair on my second vehicle, an old Mazda turbo. it's actually more of a performance shop, and they cater to high end high output applications, not that my old Mazda is such a vehicle smile

I've been working over the years on all my projects with the guy who runs the place. he's given me loads of great advice over the years, and recently, I had a similar question as you about an exhaust problem. the short of it is that I needed an exhaust gasket/heat shield that I didn't want to chase the dealer for, since parts are 1.) getting scarce for this vehicle, and 2.) expensive. he says they don't even use exhaust gaskets sometimes on their shop race car, but instead just machine the mating surfaces smooth, and apply COPPER anti seize. similar to the aluminum stuff readily available in almost any parts store, but the copper stands up better to the higher temperatures. apparently the exhaust components get so hot that they can simply melt away the aluminum in the anti seize. the paste will burn off, but the copper remains and seals well. similar to people spraying their head gaskets with copper coat, only the copper anti seize can fill in better, apparently, since you can build it up and squish it instead of having to spray it.

anyway, when I rebuild in a few days, I'll be coating all exhaust mating surfaces and gaskets with the copper anti seize. I bet it'll work well for what you need, too. worth a shot, but then again, if you're going to the bother of finding and buying copper anti seize, you might as well just order new donut gaskets. I'd still seal 'em with copper though smile


msg - '87 xtracab
From the Off-Road World
Re: Failed emissions test...again [Re: allochris] #930070 02/17/09 04:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 524
yodta Offline
Rock Warrior
Quote
Oh, 1 more pita for me...1 of the 3 studs (the inner one closer to engine) is stripped while I was undoing the nut. The nut itself is probably stripped too. Right now it sits half way along the stud. I can't tighten or lossen to take it out, it just spins & stuck in the middle... I'm so screwed...how do i take off the downpipe or seal the leak? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/angry.gif" alt="" />

you might be able to get this nut off by pulling down on the downpipe while you try to loosen it with a ratchet. might engage the threads enough to start it again. otherwise, hacksaw or dremel and get the stud replaced at the shop.

DO NOT try to drill out and extract the remaining stud material yourself. ask me how I know smile


msg - '87 xtracab
Re: Failed emissions test...again [Re: allochris] #930071 02/17/09 11:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,567
Snowtoy Offline
Roll Me Over
Quote
Quote
I was meant weld it up after you removed it <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />


Good one. I wonder why i never though of doing it the easy way... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I had a 22re specialist look over the 22re 3 wks ago. Compression test was 220/220/175/220. Injector #1 & #4 was louder than the other ones (using a rod to listen to). We haven't yet figure out the oil burning issues but for gas mileage consumption, he's saying the injectors/fuel filter are in need of a cleaning when spring comes. I asked him about rebuilt but he said it wasnt needed yet, especially since the 22re has a head swap just over 100k ago.

Would it be my rings or valve seal on cyl 3?


Comp is good, especially for the mileage.

How much oil are you losing/month? Are you actually seeing it go out the exhaust, or just having to top off every so often. If it is just slowly disappearing, it could be a number/combo of small things, i.e, leaky valve seals, rear engine seal, oil pan seal/plug, and a little getting by #3 rings seeing how it is 45psi off from the others. Unless the oil loss is visual in the exhaust or you are having to put a quart in/week, I wouldn't worry about it.

Leaky injector seals could be the loss of fuel economy, though unless you can smell gas w/the hood up it is likely more from the exhaust leak.

I know you are concerned w/the repaired manifold studs, but I don't see another way of getting the exhaust leak fixed. Even if you were able to get the nut off, with the bad stud you still couldn't the flanges tight enough to seal up. I would pull the manifold and if the heli-coiled repaired studs don't work, just re-tap using a standard tap and stud, just a little bigger than the oem metric ones.


More than tread lightly. Leave it like you were never there, nor anyone else.
'90 X-cab 4.88's 33 BFG AT's, rr ARB, Headers, Ignition upgrade, cold air induction.
'91 X-cab 5.29's 315's BFG MT's, rr ARB, custom bumper and flatbed
Re: Failed emissions test...again [Re: Snowtoy] #930072 02/18/09 01:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 827
A
allochris Offline
Rock Warrior
Quote

Comp is good, especially for the mileage.


I'm sure the new head or block was machined when it was installed about 100k ago...therefore explaining the high compression. I'm guessing everything else remained the same though...(piston, rings, valves seal, etc)

Quote

How much oil are you losing/month?
Are you actually seeing it go out the exhaust, or just having to top off every so often.


I haven't actually driven that much since my last oil change 6200km ago on Apr08. The initial 5 months out of 10 was just sitting, followed by 6200km over the last 5 months period. So far I've added a total of +5L oil last 2 months to keep my oil level between empty-middle. So 10L total including oil change for 6400km, is that a lot? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" />

I don't see oil dripping out exhaust or blue smoke. But I do see black deposit coated everywhere behind the muffler (no tail pipe) and very noxious smell from running rich? (sulfur i believe?)

Generic Aftermarket Cat is 102500km old, o2 senser is 28700km old.

My oil pan gasket isn't dripping, but it's definetely soaked.

Rear seal is probably the culpit...does a oil covered tranny confirm that problem? How do i check?

The PVC grommet on valve-cover is not particularly sealing...I see oil residue on it.

Quote

Leaky injector seals could be the loss of fuel economy, though unless you can smell gas w/the hood up it is likely more from the exhaust leak.


I do a bit of fuel fume in the summer. Actually, I do see a visual soaked cast aluminum just about 3/8" around the gap btwn intake/injector rail(I hope these are the right terminology) for #4.

Quote

I would pull the manifold and if the heli-coiled repaired studs don't work, just re-tap using a standard tap and stud, just a little bigger than the oem metric ones.


Is this refering to the head/manifold studs or manifold/downpipe studs?

Last edited by allochris; 02/18/09 01:44 AM.

91-22re(408xxxkm & counting with a rebuilt long block)- Flatbed/Camper
/33x10.5BFG-AT/Open 4:88/1.5"BJS/
+2"Shackles/Add-a-Leaf/AirLift/Dual-Batteries
Re: Failed emissions test...again [Re: allochris] #930073 02/18/09 10:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,567
Snowtoy Offline
Roll Me Over
That much consumption should be visual, especially on start up if all the oil was going out the exhaust. I think you have a few small oil leaks that are adding up, as well as maybe some leakage through the valve stems. What does the #3 cyl spark plug look like? If it isn't caked in oil, you can eliminate the rings caked in oil
Quote
Quote:I would pull the manifold and if the heli-coiled repaired studs don't work, just re-tap using a standard tap and stud, just a little bigger than the oem metric ones.

Is this refering to the head/manifold studs or manifold/downpipe studs?

I was referring to the exhaust manifold to head studs. It doesn't take much to re-tap them to accept the next standard stud(the size would fall between the oem metric and the next metric size). Usually you are able to simply rethread the stripped oem hole, you shouldn't have to drill.


More than tread lightly. Leave it like you were never there, nor anyone else.
'90 X-cab 4.88's 33 BFG AT's, rr ARB, Headers, Ignition upgrade, cold air induction.
'91 X-cab 5.29's 315's BFG MT's, rr ARB, custom bumper and flatbed
Re: Failed emissions test...again [Re: Snowtoy] #930074 02/18/09 10:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 96
H
huskyohilux Offline OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Back to the original topic:
Took another test today after last weekend's big service and the tightning of the 3 nuts that were loose between exhaust manifold and pipe.
First the HC was steady around 250 (still too high, 200 limit) but after a while it went up around and over 1000 again.
The idle is slightly worried from the EB 261C cam shaft so it's quite hard to get a steady reading.
Gonna remove the cat this weekend and see what it looks like...

Re: Failed emissions test...again [Re: huskyohilux] #930075 02/21/09 01:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 96
H
huskyohilux Offline OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Baught another cat and problem fixed.
The old one was probably too small for this engine, giving it a shorter life time.
Thanks for all the help guys <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

Re: Failed emissions test...again [Re: huskyohilux] #930076 02/21/09 02:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 706
J
Jeepeater Offline
Rock Warrior
Did you buy an OEM cat or an aftermarket? How well did it do in fixing the problems? I'm staring down a similar problem soon.

Thanks

Re: Failed emissions test...again [Re: huskyohilux] #930077 02/21/09 02:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 383
Stevie Offline
Mudrunner
Congratulations!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


'80 4X4 Longbed
Re: Failed emissions test...again [Re: Jeepeater] #930078 02/23/09 03:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 96
H
huskyohilux Offline OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
I got an aftermarket, but bigger than the one I had before.
Still cheap, $100
I think I'm currently the world record holder in changing the cat out! Baught it at a shop 3 miles from home. Got home, removed the old one, cut off the flanges, welded them on the new cat, mounted it, took an emission test in another shop nearby and back to the guy who sold it in less than 1 hour. He paid $20 for the bad one...so $80 in total for the new cat
HC down in the 30 ish!

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