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90 trooper won't stay running. #985014 02/10/10 08:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 28
F
fremont Offline OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Hi,

I have a 90 trooper with a 2.6l 4cyl engine. It broke down on me tuesday morning. I had only gone about a mile from home when it stalled out. I have not been able get the truck to stay running. It starts and then dies immediately. I have the check engine light on and I am getting a code 61 and a code 65.

I did change out the throttle position sensor (TPS) on tuesday and the code 65 went away for a little bit but then the code 65 came back.

I am able to get the trooper to stay running if I hold the starter engaged until the truck starts and keep the RPMs at 2000 RPM. If the RPMs drop below 2000 RPM the truck will stall. When I attempt to start the trooper this way the truck is "skipping", has "black smoke" out the exhaust and is "backfiring". When I keep the RPMs steady at 2000 RPM the truck does not have the "black smoke out the exhaust.

The trooper was running great before the breakdown. I did have some "hesitation" on acceleration the night before the breakdown.

I did have this problem a month ago where the trooper did sit for 7 days and I tried to start the truck every day and the trooper finally started on day 7 and ran like nothing ever happened.

Any help you can give me would be appreciated. I am in Maryland and the weather here is really cold and snowy. I am hoping to get the trooper with the 4x4 going again soon.


Thanks.

Mike

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Re: 90 trooper won't stay running. [Re: fremont] #985015 02/11/10 03:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,868
Jim_Paget Offline
Roll Me Over
I would start by putting gas dryer in the tank. It sounds as though it could be water in the fuel.


Jim Paget
88 YJ with a few changes

www.rrr4x4.com
Re: 90 trooper won't stay running. [Re: Jim_Paget] #985016 02/11/10 06:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 28
F
fremont Offline OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Jim,

When it happened a month ago I put 3 bottles of dry gas in the tank after the trooper had sat for 3 days and a few days later it started ok. Would water in the gas cause the trooper to set the check engine codes???? Would water in the gas cause it to act like this??? This all started this time right after I toped off the tank with gas. It had 1/2 tank of gas at the time and I filed up with gas the day before the breakdown. What would you suggest that I put in the tank???? I have been using regular "gas treatment" when I fill up ever since I had trouble a month ago. Would you suggest something stronger to use in the tank???? How long would I need to let the trooper sit to be able to start it normally again???

Back in the Oct 2009 I had an issue with the trooper not running and I changed out the fuel pump. It turned out to be the electrical connection going to the fuel pump instead. When I changed out the pump a few years back a few bolts snaped off in the flange that holds the pump assembly in place. I switched out the phillips head bolts with hex head bolts at that time. When I changed out the pump in Oct I didn't get an airtight seal to the rubber gasket at the top of the tank when I put the assembly back in. I was having trouble getting one of the bolts started so I left off a small washer, that I was using with the bolt to make sure that it was super tight, so that I was able to get the bolt started. The bolt is in tight and the assembly isn't loose or anything like that. I noticed that after I changed the pump back in Oct 2009 that I didn't get the hiss that I am supposed to get when I take the gas cap off to fill the tank. Also on the first fill up after the pump change in Oct I did overfill the tank a little and had a little gas come out of the top of the tank in stead of the filler neck. That is how I believe that I don't have an airtight seal with the tank. Would this allow water to get into the tank?? It kinda sucks not having the 4x4 during a snowstorm. This is our only vehicle at the moment. My other vehicle is an 87 trooper which is down for repair with a compression issue.

Thanks for your help.

Mike

Re: 90 trooper won't stay running. [Re: fremont] #985017 02/11/10 06:43 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,541
jezeric Offline
Isuzu Moderator
Try the dry gas route again. It sounds to me like it's at least a reasonably cheap and easy way to get that possibility out of the way. The fact that it happened right after filling the tank makes me suspect either water in the load of gas you topped off with, or filling the tank let condensation from the top of the tank get into the fuel and cause problems. It is possible for water in the gas to throw a check engine light, as it significantly changes the burn characteristics of the fuel spray being put into the cylinders. It definitely sounds like you don't have a solid seal at the pump, and this could let in water, water vapor for condensation, or other contaminants. Try the dry gas, and if it works, look seriously at resetting/sealing the fuel pump.


James

Re: 90 trooper won't stay running. [Re: jezeric] #985018 02/11/10 12:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 28
F
fremont Offline OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
James,

I'll try the dry gas this morning when the auto parts store opens up today (hopefully). The weather here in maryland is a mess. When the trooper first broke down tuesday I did put 1 bottle of dry gas in the tank that I had in the truck. I have been using "regular" dry gas to put in the tank. I noticed that there is something out there called "Heat" (gas line antifreeze). Would that be a better a better choice than the "regular" dry gas????? Can they be mixed together???? How long does dry gas "normally" take to get the water out of the gas???? Hopefully this is the problem. I wouldn't have though that a little water in the gas would cause this much trouble. I always thought that water in the gas would just cause the fuel line to freeze up.

Whether this is the problem or not I still need to get the top of the tank sealed up. What would you recomend to do this??? I have considered some type of permatex or silcon sealer but I am concerned about the stuff that I would be using to seal around the opening seeping into the tank and causing more trouble. I have either (3 of 6) or (3 of 5) bolts holding the pump assembly down. If I remember correctly the bolts that are left are all mostly on the same side of the flange. I would have tried to extract the bolts that are broken off into the flange but putting an electric drill near the tank either with or without fuel in it would be a big no-no. Unless I want to blow myself and the truck up which I don't really want to do.


I will put the "dry gas" into the tank and let you know what happens. Thanks for the help.


Mike

Re: 90 trooper won't stay running. [Re: fremont] #985019 02/15/10 01:31 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,541
jezeric Offline
Isuzu Moderator
Hey Mike,

Sorry for the delay. I've been largely offline for the weekend. As far as Heet combined with dry gas, I think you'll find they're pretty much the same thing, but I can't swear to it, as I've not used either product much. As far as the water in the gas goes, it can make a difference in how the engine runs because it gets into the combustion chambers and affects the burn rate, efficiency, and effectiveness of the fuel/air mixture.

On sealing the tank, I've never done one of the Trooper units. There ought to be some threads on here about changing out the pump, which may offer some options. I understand your disinclination to be throwing a lot of electricity around in fuel vapors. As far as a sealer or silicone, as long as you don't force it into the tank, and give it enough time to set completely, I wouldn't think it would enter the tank and cause problems, but I obviously can't promise you anything. Make sure you look for a solvent resistant sealer if you're going to go that route. Of course, if you're going to seal the pump to the tank, it's going to make later replacement or service, if needed, more difficult.

I hope you've had some good luck with it over the weekend. Let us know how it works out.

James

Re: 90 trooper won't stay running. [Re: jezeric] #985020 02/16/10 08:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,268
mlclark Offline
Isuzu Moderator
*****
Gas dry and Heet are the same. Isopropyl alcohol. They don't really "dry" the gas. They just bind the moisture and it is all burned together. But, if you have gross water contamination, it is not going to fix the problem.

I think you have identified the problem. Originally, it sounded like you had just 1 or 2 broken screws, but you have a lot missing and it is most likely not sealing.

If I were you, I would just drop the tank and fix it. Drain the gas, wash out the tank with a hose (if you have water, you have dirt, rocks, rodents ect in there). Then drill out the broken screws and chase the threads with a tap. Get a new gasket (I think there is a gasket) and put it all back together correctly.

Slathering on sealant from below with the tank in place is not going to last long. It is too dirty for the sealant to adhere very well or for very long.

Good Luck,
Michael

PS, the only other thing for you to maybe check is the idle air control valve located on the passenger side of the engine, under the intake. There is a large u-shaped hose that connects it to the intake. If it is loose, cracked or disconnected, your vehicle might start and run at higher RPMs, but it will not stay running. Or the valve may be sticking. Smack it a few times to see if anything changes.

Re: 90 trooper won't stay running. [Re: mlclark] #985021 02/17/10 12:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,868
Jim_Paget Offline
Roll Me Over
Be very careful drilling out the bolts and retapping. The bolts don't go through into the tank. There is a "dimple" under each bolt that forms a sort of bubble into which the end of the bolt goes. Michael might well remember a persistent odor of gasoline around my rig when I made the mistake above.


Jim Paget
88 YJ with a few changes

www.rrr4x4.com







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