4x4Wire TrailTalk

Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success!

Posted By: dcg9381

Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/29/06 02:49 AM

Finally... After about a billizon hours of troubleshooting, I've come up with a tested plug and play system that works with stock toyota wiring.

Basically I create a harness out of a "core" ECU and integrate it to megasquirt. It's +1 wire (02 heat ground) and needs a vacuum line from the intake. With the kick panel removed, I can swap in in and out in under 1 minute.




For those of you who are not familiar with it, it's a completely programmable ECU. It allows you to changing the timing curve, the fuel map, acceleration costants, warm up enrichment, basically anything you'd ever want to play with in the land of EFI.

If you have a *significantly* modified motor, this is the way to go.
If you've got a turbo or supercharger - this is the *only* way to go.

Lightly modified motors - go spend money elsewhere, unless you really want to be able to tweek everything!

This is a budget replacement for a system like SDS or FAST, both of which run over $1500.

Cost? Around $350 for the DIYer.. I'm not selling the units, I'll refer to a vendor. I'm working on a source of them that should cost around $300, but to date no one has built them to my satisfaction.

These can come pre-tuned and plug and play!

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


[non-22re advance table removed, as I don't want to confuse anyone]
Posted By: subliminaltrips

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/29/06 04:12 AM

ive been researching it off and on and i may do it on my 84 when i swap to efi. but id like to see pics and more details on your install. from what im understanding you can pretty much use the stock sensors. did you get the spark controller too?
Posted By: Frank Torres

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/29/06 05:02 AM

Congratulation on your hard work.

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unless you really want to be able to tweek everything!


That me, I've been interested in megasquirt for a long time but never had the time to invest in the set up.

Frank
Posted By: Rauch_Off_Road

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/29/06 08:35 AM

I'm really interested in MS for my 3.0, getting the maps is I think way beyond both me and my budget.
Posted By: Jason22RET

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/29/06 05:05 PM

VERY nice. can you get real time data as shown with a laptop? Can you switch programs on the fly? Im putting a stock 22RTE in a 94 PU, I have the stock turbo ECU but I wonder if I could coax a bit more out of it with a system like this. Im putting a similar system in my Mustang with a fold out in dash touch screen
JG
Posted By: mosk

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/30/06 12:09 AM

Congrats, Darin -- great job!

Out of curiosity, does the MS handle a WBO2, and does it allow for realtime WBO2 air/fuel correction? The ability to run in closed loop mode at WOT was the feature that really sold me on the FAST unit.

-Jeff
Posted By: dcg9381

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/30/06 05:12 AM

I'll go through these one at a time:

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id like to see pics and more details on your install.


Go to www.22returbo.net, click on "22re custom EFI". There's a how-to guide at the top of the page.
Let me know if you have specific questions.


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From what im understanding you can pretty much use the stock sensors.


This was the whole point of this "project". I've got a motor ready to go in that won't use stock sensors, but I wanted to prove that it could be done "plug and play". The only additional sensor is a MAP sensor (manifold absolute pressure) which comes with megasquirt. It needs a vacuum line to function.

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did you get the spark controller too?

The hardest part about megasquirt integration is spark.
This version of MS uses electronics that produce a signal like the stock ECU... Basically it has built-in spark control of the factory ignitor, only you can control the complete timing map. This means you can set the timing at any point in the RPM/load curve - not just a static increase in timing.


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I'm really interested in MS for my 3.0, getting the maps is I think way beyond both me and my budget.


I believe the 3.0L uses VAST (ignition type) also. I've seen references to one successful project with the 3.0L. Generally the fuel and timing maps are pretty close between vehicles. It can be done...

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VERY nice. can you get real time data as shown with a laptop? Can you switch programs on the fly? Im putting a stock 22RTE in a 94 PU, I have the stock turbo ECU but I wonder if I could coax a bit more out of it with a system like this.


Yes, real time data display. You can define which "gauges" you want to show in the display. It can datalog and do real time display.. Basically do a lot more than you can keep up with while using the software.
There is also a "pocket" display available - called "megaview". I've never used it.
I'd highly recommend this for the 22RTE, especially if you go to a slightly larger turbo like CT26 or t3.
Note, the 22RTE pin out is slightly different and I don't have a base fuel map for it.. Additional tuning would be required. My turbo truck tuning will be very different from the 22RTE.



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Out of curiosity, does the MS handle a WBO2, and does it allow for realtime WBO2 air/fuel correction? The ability to run in closed loop mode at WOT was the feature that really sold me on the FAST unit.


Yes, there is "official" support of several widebands. It allows for realtime 02 correction - both narrowband and wideband. With wideband, you can tune to a specific air/fuel, just like FAST. Basically you come up with a fuel map that is close and the system can auto-correct to get the right air/fuel. Logging allows map correction after the fact. I've swiped your A/F targets for my turbo project and I'm hoping they'll help... The functionality between FAST and megasquirt looks very similiar.
Posted By: Rauch_Off_Road

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/30/06 05:25 AM

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I believe the 3.0L uses VAST (ignition type) also. I've seen references to one successful project with the 3.0L. Generally the fuel and timing maps are pretty close between vehicles. It can be done...


Can you point me to that person? I looked all over the net and couldn't find anyone.
Posted By: dcg9381

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/30/06 05:36 AM

Try this post:
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?p=122123
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/30/06 02:55 PM

very nice.
it's good to somone pushing these motors in a new direction while documenting it online <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: mosk

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/30/06 07:23 PM

Quote

Yes, there is "official" support of several widebands. It allows for realtime 02 correction - both narrowband and wideband. With wideband, you can tune to a specific air/fuel, just like FAST. Basically you come up with a fuel map that is close and the system can auto-correct to get the right air/fuel. Logging allows map correction after the fact. I've swiped your A/F targets for my turbo project and I'm hoping they'll help... The functionality between FAST and megasquirt looks very similiar.


Wow, very cool that MS has WOT closed loop support.

I'll send you my most current maps tonight, Darin. The maps on the site are a bit lean; the current maps are much, much better.

Out of curiosity, how much boost are you running on the maps you've posted? Seem like your ignition advance is pretty aggressive. Are you running pump gas or something stronger?

-Jeff
Posted By: dcg9381

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/30/06 09:57 PM

Quote


Wow, very cool that MS has WOT closed loop support.

I'll send you my most current maps tonight, Darin. The maps on the site are a bit lean; the current maps are much, much better.

Out of curiosity, how much boost are you running on the maps you've posted? Seem like your ignition advance is pretty aggressive. Are you running pump gas or something stronger?

-Jeff


I'm not running a turbo on this setup at all. It's a 100% stock (down to original gaskets) 22RE. I really did this project to support those that want to run a tunable ECU on a baseline 22RE/22RTE... Mainly those who do sigificant modifications that the stock ECU doesn't like - strokers, aftermarket turbos, port work, and for the 22RTE anything that dials the boost up a bit. Or for those people that don't want to make any wiring changes. It's cost me a bunch of time and a few extra ECUs, but I though they're be enough interest in it to slightly offset my time.. I just had no idea HOW much time it would take!

My real goal it to build a "budget" 22RE (low compression) - that's reliable and can produce 200hp for under $2500 - total cost including turbo, fuel management, and complete rebuild. That cost point might make LC Engineering cry.. I just need to find someone local that's interested.

My turbo motor is complete and sitting in the garage.. I've just got to hook up the throttle body, adjust the valves, do a few small things. The wiring harness is going to deviate as I won't use the AFM and I'll be doing a wideband, etc. Also the budget is out the door as I'll be going over that 200hp mark.

[Linked Image]

I'll post up some fuel and timing maps soon, the ones above were actually taken from another application just for the purposes of showing what they look like. I suppose I should correct that before someone takes them as actual data for the 22re.

Between your timing map and mine (for naturally aspirated) - you're running significantly more timing early (while not into boost), which makes sense as you're low compression.

I'll post actual timing and fuel maps soon.
Posted By: mosk

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/30/06 10:24 PM

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I'm not running a turbo on this setup at all. It's a 100% stock (down to original gaskets) 22RE. I really did this project to support those that want to run a tunable ECU on a baseline 22RE/22RTE... Mainly those who do sigificant modifications that the stock ECU doesn't like - strokers, aftermarket turbos, and for the 22RTE anything that dials the boost up a bit. Or for those people that don't want to make any wiring changes. It's cost me a bunch of time and a few extra ECUs, but I though they're be enough interest in it to slightly offset my time.. I just had no idea HOW much time it would take!

My turbo motor is complete and sitting in the garage.[snip]


Ahhhh...much clearer now.

Again, Darin, hats off to you for doing this. It is definitely something that the folks who need will appreciate.

Out of curiosity, what sorts of restrictions are there on reselling the open source components in the project? Are you allowed to sell them as part of a complete package with the proprietary stuff you've developed, or do you have to sell your proprietary items out of your storefront and point buyers to another source for the MS stuff? Again, just curious, and if you're more comfortable answering this via PM (or not answering at all) I understand...

-Jeff
Posted By: dcg9381

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/30/06 11:13 PM

Jeff, here is the current fuel map (VEBins) and advance maps (advTable) for a stock 22RE motor.
Note my base timing is 5deg BTDC.
I think the fuel map is spot on.
The timing map I'm still tweeking with, I've got it down to within 1-2 degrees.. Most people wouldn't notice a difference from a stock ECU, but I've got a touch of knock when running AC, coming off low idle, and accelerating.
I haven't tweeked the high end (rpm) of the map much...

[Linked Image]


I don't consider anything I've developed "proprietary". I'm happy to provide the pin out between the toyota connector and megasquirt. I will resell the harnesses - at least I'm going to sell 1 or 2 and see how that works out. I have a good job and it's simply not time vs income effective to spend my time on this.. I can't give them away, but I really don't want to charge big money for my time. It's a hobby.. How many hours have you spent answering questions and assisting people with their toyota stuff?

To answer your question:
There are restrictions on the board itself (copyrighted) and ECU. You're not allowed to make your own board (for resale) based on the current design. You can do whatever you want with them for personal use. This limitation prevents multiple unofficial board versions, contributes to stable design, and contributes to well documented modifications.

Resale:
Because the boards can't be copied (legally) and are available from a single documented source, distributors have to buy batches of 10 of them to become a "distributor". The only way to get kits now is from a distributor.

Distributors are allowed to resell assembled boards. There are some limitations, such as using non-origial ECUs and distributors that use non-original parts may find themselves out of the distributor business.

I'll be honest, there is at least one distributor that knew these boards well enough to provide detailed instructions on how to do it. If you're making a living at this, it's not in your best interest to disclose how to modify boards for a given application when you can charge a premium for those modifications. This sort of activity goes directly against what the creators of megasquirt are trying to accomplish, but it does happen. I found this to be quite frustrating more than once.

If you're asking me if someone can resell megasquirt, the answer is yes. You're essentially selling a configuration and assembly service as long as you use the original boards and components. Resellers can't do things like copy their board design, replace the ECU and resell for an increased profit.. IE source the major components somewhere else or develop them from scratch. This is the main "limitation" on resale.
Posted By: Rauch_Off_Road

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/30/06 11:43 PM

Couple questions for ya.

Where did you get your MS? I've considered building my own unit but maybe a complete one would be better?

What do you think is the best option for ignition? I've been considering using the jacobs unit but I know if I go MS then I can be rid ofthe dist all together and use a more modern type of ignition, what would you recomend?

Keep in mind I know nothing about auto electronics.
Posted By: dcg9381

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/31/06 12:04 AM

Assembling megasquirt doesn't require circuit level knowledge. You've got to be able to follow directions and must have significantly above average soldering skill. You'll learn something about electronics...

I've had two MS units for this project. The one that worked was from DIYAutotune.com

Really, any quality vendor should work if you provide specific instructions. Just make sure you get someone who will stand behind their work. It's a real pain to debug these things. I had to get an oscilloscope and it took a lot of time / frustration.

If you want to get rid of the stock dizzy, I recommend EDIS. It's a well proven system and very common. The components required to make it work are inexpensive. It's a crank trigger system, some fabrication required.

Removing the stock dizzy will result in a loss of tach function. I believe it will also result in a loss of AC function also (there is a circuit that detects minimum RPM for the compressor clutch). These functions can be turned back on, but require an additional "adapter" and some wiring.

For plug and play, I recommend VAST (stock ignition).
For a more serious application, I'd recommend EDIS and a coil bank.
MSD ignition is another common option, but it triggers off the stock dizzy.
Ignition is the most difficult part of these projects, IMHO.
Posted By: Rauch_Off_Road

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/31/06 12:15 AM

How does MS and EDIS compare in performance to say the jacobs unit? How much fabrication is required to make edis work and what do you need to run the stock tac?

Lots of questions I know.
Posted By: dcg9381

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/31/06 01:57 AM

I've never purchased the Jacobs unit or used it.
I have used a few of the MSD units: 6A and 6AL.
There are a few ways of getting better ignition:

1) More accuracy. Better resolution on whatever triggers the ignition. Something directly tied to the crank is usually better than a gear drive distributor, as the distributor has some level of slack and free play.
2) Bigger spark. Bigger spark allows more gap, which may burn fuel better.
3) More sparks. Multiple sparks discharged in a single ignition event.

I believe the Jacobs unit uses #2 and #3 above.

A EDIS is more accurate. I'd guess it also has a better spark as the electronics are more modern (but I have no factual confirmation).

To use one EDIS, you need to be able to mount a crank trigger. Is is a "gear" looking thing that goes on the end of your harmonic balancer. It can be welded on - or bolted on if you get creative enough. It's got to be very well centered, however.

[Linked Image]

You need to be able to mount a sensor within a few mm of this wheel.

To run the stock tach, you need a "signal" adapter. I believe megasquirt has a 5v square wave "tach output" - this signal needs to be conditioned into something the OEM tach understands. Basically you buy the adapter and wire it between megasquirt and your stock tach input. Jeff uses something like this for his FAST system.


If you're looking for a multiple-spark & hot coil system, you can use the MSD units with the stock ignition system.. Again, controlled by megasquirt. I'll let you do your megasquirt homework on the Jacobs system.. I've seen references to it.

There is probably a little bit of power in a better/hotter spark. There is also a bit of power in a properly adjusted timing curve.
Posted By: Rauch_Off_Road

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/31/06 02:03 AM

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I've never purchased the Jacobs unit or used it.
I have used a few of the MSD units: 6A and 6AL.
There are a few ways of getting better ignition:

1) More accuracy. Better resolution on whatever triggers the ignition. Something directly tied to the crank is usually better than a gear drive distributor, as the distributor has some level of slack and free play.
2) Bigger spark. Bigger spark allows more gap, which may burn fuel better.
3) More sparks. Multiple sparks discharged in a single ignition event.

I believe the Jacobs unit uses #2 and #3 above.

A EDIS is more accurate. I'd guess it also has a better spark as the electronics are more modern (but I have no factual confirmation).

To use one EDIS, you need to be able to mount a crank trigger. Is is a "gear" looking thing that goes on the end of your harmonic balancer. It can be welded on - or bolted on if you get creative enough. It's got to be very well centered, however.

[Linked Image]

You need to be able to mount a sensor within a few mm of this wheel.

To run the stock tach, you need a "signal" adapter. I believe megasquirt has a 5v square wave "tach output" - this signal needs to be conditioned into something the OEM tach understands. Basically you buy the adapter and wire it between megasquirt and your stock tach input. Jeff uses something like this for his FAST system.


If you're looking for a multiple-spark & hot coil system, you can use the MSD units with the stock ignition system.. Again, controlled by megasquirt. I'll let you do your megasquirt homework on the Jacobs system.. I've seen references to it.

There is probably a little bit of power in a better/hotter spark. There is also a bit of power in a properly adjusted timing curve.


Yea I'm gonna have to do a lot more research. I contacted the guy who did the MS on a 3vzfe. I'll bet I can use his maps as my starting point if I do go MS.
Posted By: mosk

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/31/06 03:37 AM

Darin is right in saying that the ignition control is probably more complicated than the fuel control.

On my system, I used the stock 22RTE distributor. It interfaces with a MSD 6A, which in turn interfaces with the FAST unit. I use one of MSD's tach adapters (I believe the one based on voltage) to drive the stock tach. The wiring was simple and the ability to use the stock distributor was actually one of the things that attracted me to the FAST, as at the time MS did not have spark control and the SDS system and Electromotive TEC II required fabricating a Hall effect sensor, which looked like a serious PITA.

Crank trigger ignitions are wonderful and very accurate, but most aftermarket setups and custom setups aren't well suited to the mud + water mayhem you might see off-road, as they attach externally. Most also mount to the crank. For a while I toyed with the idea of making a system that was driven off the flywheel, because I could mount the components higher up, but ultimately, I decided that the MSD/FAST interaction had some great benefits, like being stable and widely adopted/supported. So one approach is to use something close to stockinitially and then upgrade later once you get the motor running. Too many changes at once and you have a vehicle that sits for years because it is too complicated to finish.

My .02 cents, more or less on topic,

-Jeff
Posted By: Rauch_Off_Road

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/31/06 04:13 AM

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Too many changes at once and you have a vehicle that sits for years because it is too complicated to finish.

My .02 cents, more or less on topic,

-Jeff


Funny thats just what I was thinking after my last post <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />. So either I do the Jacobs now or after the ecu, work prolly before.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/31/06 01:07 PM

he's doing the right thing, moving forward one step at a time.

as far as the distributorless ignition, it's a good idea because the heavy spark retards needed to run the big boost often don't play well with an old-school distributor. the ignition module can only move the spark timing as far back or forward as the width of the rotor contact allows. on a big retard, you're already sparking on that trailing edge of the contact, then at high revs, the time window for the spark to jump starts dwindling down, too. the only way to cheat the problem is either with a high engery spark unit like an MSD or Jacobs, or, use a distributorless ignition system like the EDIS. considering that the oem's started with high-enegery ignitions like the HEI and TFI in the 70's and then went to EDIS type stytems in the 90's, I'd back the more current technology as the way to go.
Posted By: Rauch_Off_Road

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 10/31/06 04:13 PM

Quote
he's doing the right thing, moving forward one step at a time.

as far as the distributorless ignition, it's a good idea because the heavy spark retards needed to run the big boost often don't play well with an old-school distributor. the ignition module can only move the spark timing as far back or forward as the width of the rotor contact allows. on a big retard, you're already sparking on that trailing edge of the contact, then at high revs, the time window for the spark to jump starts dwindling down, too. the only way to cheat the problem is either with a high engery spark unit like an MSD or Jacobs, or, use a distributorless ignition system like the EDIS. considering that the oem's started with high-enegery ignitions like the HEI and TFI in the 70's and then went to EDIS type stytems in the 90's, I'd back the more current technology as the way to go.


Actually after thinking about it I might try MS first, I need to see if I can get a friend of mine who is a computer genious to help me with this first lol.
Posted By: dcg9381

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 11/04/06 12:02 AM

You don't have to be a computer genious if you want a plug and play setup. You will have to learn how to use tuning software. On a stock 22RE, you can literally plug it in and drive way.. Mess with the tuning as you understand it.

If you're integrating it yourself, get someone who understands electronics and can read a wiring diagram... Understanding igition systems is a big bonus.
Posted By: matts

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 11/04/06 05:19 AM

Here's a small twist for you. I have an '89 4runner donor vehicle that I want to use to upgrade my '84 22R xtra cab to EFI. The donor has an auto tranny and I know that the ECU & wiring harness is specific to the A/T (but I believe it has the same plugs on the ECU). Do you think your custom wiring harness would be plug-n-play with this set-up? -- Matt
Posted By: dcg9381

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 11/04/06 08:49 PM

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Here's a small twist for you. I have an '89 4runner donor vehicle that I want to use to upgrade my '84 22R xtra cab to EFI. The donor has an auto tranny and I know that the ECU & wiring harness is specific to the A/T (but I believe it has the same plugs on the ECU). Do you think your custom wiring harness would be plug-n-play with this set-up? -- Matt


I honestly don't know about the auto tranny setup. Like you, I've understood that there isn't much ECU difference between the manual and auto tranny. The 88 diagram doesn't have any pin out differences. That's *not* true of later 22REs, but I'm not entirely sure when they switched computers.. I know they were different by 1993. You'd need to confirm your ECU pin out.

I assume you want to do EFI with the 22RE and keep your manual transmission?

Two ways to do it:
1) Pull the entire motor out, wiring harness and all. You could probably get it to run just as easily on the stock ECU without additional expense.

2) If you want to make it simple, pull the motor out. Keep your stock 1984 wiring and run megasquirt "fuel only" - which is simply an add-in harness for the EFI side of things. Keep the stock 22r mechanical igntion system. These wiring setups look like "painless" wiring. You can get them pre-labelled.

Basically my harness doesn't help here... If you get it running with my harness, you could have it running with the stock ECU.
Posted By: half_fast

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 11/05/06 03:38 PM

Yet nobody still has enough information for me to convert my 20R hybread into an EFI motor.....Grrrrrr
Posted By: mosk

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 11/06/06 04:14 AM

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Yet nobody still has enough information for me to convert my 20R hybread into an EFI motor.....Grrrrrr


What do you need to know?

You either need to have a custom EFI manifold made (best overall choice), use a TBI setup (adequate choice), or modify the head so you can use a 22RE manifold (probably a compromise choice. The fuel maps and advance tables are short work for a professional tuner once you get the rest of the conversion in place, but yeah, no one makes a complete off-the-shelf EFI solution for a 20R head.

Actually, if you don't need to use a plenum for forced induction, you can use TWM's individual throttle bodies and a Weber-compatible dual sidedraft manifold:

http://www.twminduction.com/ThrottleBody/ThrottleBody2900-FR.html

They are admittedly pricey, but they are supposed to be incredibly responsive.

You still need the fuel and spark management, but the TWM EFI solution would get you linkage, manifold, throttlebodies, injectors, TPS, etc.

-Jeff
Posted By: dcg9381

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 11/07/06 03:36 AM

I've done the "TBI" version of fuel injection on my old supercharged 22R. It's an improvement over the carb. With an 02 sensor, you'll pick up some mileage over the carb and inclines won't be an issue. For the naturally aspirated setup, you don't really need spark control - just run your stock distributor setup to keep it simple. The fuel injection is simply add-on.

You could integrate with TWM hardware also. I had considered a big TWM setup as an upgrade from the TBI at one time.
Posted By: Rauch_Off_Road

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 11/07/06 04:28 AM

TWM?
Posted By: mosk

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 11/07/06 10:28 AM

TWM makes aftermarket TBI throttlebodies. The generally mimic the shape of Weber sidedraft or downdraft carbs:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

On the 20R, you would need to use their TB with a sidedraft intake manifold. On a V6, you would need to make a custom lower intake manifold.

-Jeff
Posted By: Rauch_Off_Road

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 11/07/06 04:48 PM

Remembering that I know nothing about the 20r and little about the 22re couldn't you just take a 22re manifold and have a machine shop adapt it to the 20r head? Or are they that much different?
Posted By: half_fast

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 11/07/06 05:55 PM

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Remembering that I know nothing about the 20r and little about the 22re couldn't you just take a 22re manifold and have a machine shop adapt it to the 20r head? Or are they that much different?



Its hard to put a round plug in a square hole.... forced induction would work, HAS worked...but getting that assembly to flow right with a naturaly asparating engine wouldnt be efficient at all. No amount of porting could line up the intake runners.

For some reason Im a little intimidated by the EFI stuff. I can do the factory stuff OK, but dabbling with the custom stuff un-nerves me. Ive had side draft carbs and they arent kindly twards us "Mudders". I guess TBI would be the easiest way to go.
Posted By: Rauch_Off_Road

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 11/09/06 08:13 AM

So in all honesty how long should it take a noob to setup and tune their MS2?
Posted By: Rauch_Off_Road

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 11/09/06 08:44 AM

Nuther question for ya. If I run the stock dist MS will still control advance/retard etc?
Posted By: dcg9381

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 11/09/06 08:51 PM

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So in all honesty how long should it take a noob to setup and tune their MS2?


I haven't done MS-2, I've done MS-I. There are processor, pin out, and board differences.

If "setup" means assembly: I don't know, I've never assembled one. I think they take around 8-16 hours to assemble if you're familiar with them. They need to be tested after assembly. It's not easy to get it right the first time, you'll need a very good soldering setup, and a lot of patience.

If setup assumes a pre-built properly configured megasquirt & integrate with the existing wiring: With an adapter harness like what I've been making, about 5 minutes. If you want to build the harness yourself, probably about 2-4 hours, if you're careful. Crossing ECU wires is not good.
I've done most of the homework for you and I've tested the wiring adapter diagrams for the 22re.


Quote
Nuther question for ya. If I run the stock dist MS will still control advance/retard etc?


For VAST igntion systems (IE - 22RE ignitor) it will give you total control over timing, 144 points of timing control total.

For 22R systems, you can keep the stock distributor and not worry about timing at all. Just do it fuel only.

You can do timing control over 22R systems also, but that's another discussion.
Posted By: dcg9381

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 12/11/06 04:17 AM

So I completed stage 1, which was do a stand alone system (no extra wires) on an 1988 22RE 4runner. I drove it for over a month and got it tuned to where I wanted it to be.

I've just finished stage 2, which was the complete overall of a 22RTE/22RE hybid w/ garrett t3/t04b turbo.
It was installed in the truck last weekend and I got it fired up and idling this weekend.
Oil pressure 60-70psi
Still running the stock fuel pump, we'll see how that works out. 440cc injectors. 2.5" downpipe. Exhaust not hooked up yet.
Finished finding all the little leaks, etc that new motors have. Setup the 60mm tb to idle.
Still haven't tuned it - no more time this weekend - need to add the wideband and better integrate the additional wiring.

It does sound like a flying saucer, however.. kinda exciting..
http://lakebox.dnsalias.com/photos/1988%204runner/engine/rebuild/eng1.MPG


[Linked Image]
Posted By: mosk

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 12/11/06 05:35 AM

Congrats, Darin! Keep us posted once you tune it. How much boost do you plan on running? Pump gas or something else?

- Jeff
Posted By: dcg9381

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 12/11/06 05:54 AM

Well start with 5psi for the first 500 miles.
I expect peak boost to be similiar to your setup, when I get an intercooler... Depends on how the tuning comes out.

Street truck - no interest in breakingn the transmission via drag racing it.. I'll put it on a dyno once it's broken in.
Posted By: TexJeff87

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 12/11/06 02:58 PM

Gee Darin, thanks for getting that motor all set up so we can drop it into my 4runner!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />





<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Rauch_Off_Road

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 12/11/06 04:38 PM

Damn I can't wait to put MS in my truck.
Posted By: dcg9381

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 12/11/06 09:27 PM

Might wanna wait until I get it tuned before pulling it out...

It's always exciting to spent a ton of time and money on something like this and then *hope* that you got it all right when you go to turn that key.
Posted By: mosk

Re: Plug and Play programmable ECU (megasquirt) - success! - 12/11/06 10:53 PM

Quote
It's always exciting to spent a ton of time and money on something like this and then *hope* that you got it all right when you go to turn that key.


Heh...yeah, "exciting," is one word for it. "Nerve-wracking," "terrifying," and "scary" might be others...
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