4x4Wire TrailTalk

4G64 build (updated - was 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0)

Posted By: 87monty

4G64 build (updated - was 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0) - 05/25/12 12:46 AM

So I have been given a 91 LWB and was thinking of keeping the V6 just in case I had a major failure with my starion Turbo swap. Now the big question is what could I do to this 3.0 motor if I wanted to put it in? Is this motor pretty much the GT 3000 with 16 Valve heads? what about the 24 Valve heads? has anyone done this swap? I did find a guy that did a twin turbo set up on his and said he had gobbs of low end I guess.
As for the reason I pull a offroad trailer I built and im thinking it's around 1200Lbs unloaded. I have a good running rig now but sure notice it on the hills. I can put this on a stand and build it up from there, I know its not the 3.5 but it was free and runs good. Any imput would be great guys.
Posted By: fasteddy

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/25/12 02:07 AM

I always wanted to build a gen1 3.0 with late model 3.5 sohc 24v heads in place of the 12v sohc heads, with a turbo. I would use a fabbed pside exh mani and use the stock dside down to the y pipe, then turn the dside exh up to the pside fabbed flange for about a 16g turbo. Should see around 300-325hp out of that setup if you intercool it well. Over 2x the 12v 3.0 hp of 150 or so, and over twice the torque, too. You would need to thermowrap the dside exh to keep the heat in to run all that way. It should drive like it had a husky v8 in it.

In terms of a 2.6t vs a 3.0na motor, the 2.6 wins. a 2.4dohcT wins by even more. 3.0 is about 150 hp and 175torque. A 2.6t is 206hp and about 225torque. I've seen dyno runs on a 2.4t at 314hp and 300ftlbs on pump gas.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/25/12 04:03 AM

I like the numbers of the V6 for sure, I think the extra 2 cylinders will help on up hill. I also think the turbo adition to the V6 will bring a nice power band threw out the hole torque curve. Dont get me wrong the 2.6 is an animal it self and has great power, but iv become more power hungry with my additions and like the sound of the V6.
My down side to the 2.6 is the balance shafts ( Which I do not have now) Seems unstable at higher Rpms. Im after a serious torgue monster and I think Eddys combo is what im after...
As always you come threw with the answers!
Posted By: rxinhed

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/26/12 12:33 AM

Jason, may be time to graduate to the 5.0L option?

5L discussion

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: justice

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/26/12 02:07 AM

Cant put 24 Valve heads on a 12 Valve block there are minor differences with water jackets. Best bet to do this is get a wrecked Donor SR with 3.5 or maybe a later model 95-96 LS with the SOHC 24 valve if you want to stick with 3.0 displacement. You'll need to get the brain and wiring harness from donor...
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/26/12 04:15 AM

Man so my options..ok heres a different approach has anyone thought of a 4G63 2.0 with a 2.4 crank which makes a 2.3 stroker? Im not sure at this point but can have a 2.0 wide block tomorrow if I want it. I have read that there bullet proof and have lots low end. Then there is the DOHC I want as well...Crap lol! V6 sounds good but then I see this 4 banger just smoke all outputs across the board.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: fasteddy

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/27/12 01:48 AM

Find a 4g64 wideblock and put the 4g63 heads on it and you have 6 more c.i., better torque, and should be able to make an easy 300hp with the right turbo setup and MSpnp.

Then sell the 4g63 short block and recoup some bucks.

The dohc 4g4 should handle 15psi on pump gas with the nice combustion chambers and 4v heads. I hear the gen1 heads flow better, and it seems you need the 6bolt block for best results. There are some water circulation mods you need to clear the firewall.

See projectzerog.com for all the skinny
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/28/12 05:26 PM

Quote
Find a 4g64 wideblock and put the 4g63 heads on it and you have 6 more c.i., better torque, and should be able to make an easy 300hp with the right turbo setup and MSpnp.

Then sell the 4g63 short block and recoup some bucks.

The dohc 4g4 should handle 15psi on pump gas with the nice combustion chambers and 4v heads. I hear the gen1 heads flow better, and it seems you need the 6bolt block for best results. There are some water circulation mods you need to clear the firewall.

See projectzerog.com for all the skinny


OK so im going for it! I found a 91 4G64 block at mt local yard for 150, I have found the 4G63 complete head for 200$
I already have a nice header that I bought a year or so ago.
found a 14B turbo from a guy here in town so im after that as well. The guy with the Gen1 head has a full dsm 4G63 gen1 wire harness that im getting also. Now im trying to find which intake I should run as there is many options for diffrent setup's I have seen. Eddy what is the MSpnp mean? Map sensor or? These engines have alot of aftermarket parts
as well as tunner software...and the fun starts! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: MontyMcV

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/28/12 06:27 PM

MS = Mega Squirt
Posted By: DR1665

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/29/12 03:22 AM

You'll run into a lot of commentary on the DSM boards about the 1G head having larger ports and being better for top end. It's physics by popular opinion.

A well-maintained 4G63T is good for 400whp+ on the stock internals with proper tuning. You can mix-n-match a lot of parts.

I'd just leave it stock for the time being if you go that route.

Curious to see how this plays out.
Posted By: geocrasher

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/29/12 07:50 AM

Quote
Jason, may be time to graduate to the 5.0L option?

5L discussion

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Its confirmed, I'm heading to Washington state later this year, where there are no smog controls. My Dad lives up there, he's a big Ford guy, and with the distributor in the front, the 302 looks like a great option, and cheap too. If the circumstances will allow, I'll probably do a 302 in my Raider when the time comes for a new motor, or sooner as funds and time allow for. And as much as I think a big V8 has its DOWN sides, having lots of power on tap with lots of simplicity sure does have its UPS.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/29/12 11:35 PM

So today I struck gold!

I went with a 96 4G63 head (and it was 100$ out the door!) because the CAS (Cam Angle Sensor) is on the front of the head, The Gen 1 is on the back which makes it impossible to change if you needed to without pulling the motor, Link to Project Zero bottom of page: http://projectzerog.com/sirius_engines.shtml
The car I picked it from was rolled and only had 10,000 miles on it, so I think ill just have it checked and cleaned up . Valve cover is peeling thats it! I did see it has factory roller rockers too wow didnt know that one!...
Also I picked up a truck 2.4 block lower (6 Bolt) end and will have that tomorrow. here is some pics of the head with my evo header <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Intake port side.
[Linked Image]
I cannot wait! 300 plus Hp and still get over 20 MPg!
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/31/12 02:37 AM

Picked up the block (Bottom End only) today and its 13.25 wide block out of a 92 mitsu and seems to be in really good shape. Hey do you guys think the 2.6 pan will fit on the 2.4?
Looks like it might
If not ill have to get crafty it seems do to the front axle.
Thanks for all your guys Ideas by the way <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: MontyMcV

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/31/12 03:41 AM

Looking forward to seeing this one as it developes... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: JohnnyBfromPeoria

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/31/12 05:20 AM

A 2.4 fits in an '87 Raider/Montero as is. You only need to whack the oil pan a few times/places to "clearance" it.

John B.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/31/12 07:04 AM

Quote
A 2.4 fits in an '87 Raider/Montero as is. You only need to whack the oil pan a few times/places to "clearance" it.

John B.

Well im good at whacking it.... ummm never mind that one.
So the front sump pan will work? seems to not as deep for sure.
Posted By: fasteddy

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 05/31/12 04:16 PM

see if you can find a 4wd pickup oil pan. I think that motor sits further forward in the frame, and the pan has a factory dent to clear the front diff. It does sit further forward in the gen1 4wd pickup.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/01/12 01:24 AM

Quote
see if you can find a 4wd pickup oil pan. I think that motor sits further forward in the frame, and the pan has a factory dent to clear the front diff. It does sit further forward in the gen1 4wd pickup.

Ok will do Eddy thanks for the info I will add that to my hunt list.
I picked up a complete intake and early Gen1 DSM (91-94) wire harness today
I have marked all the plugs with blue tape like this one below.
[Linked Image]
Posted By: MontyMcV

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/01/12 02:22 AM

That's an awesome picture/chart/graphic/thing.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/01/12 02:59 AM

Quote
That's an awesome picture/chart/graphic/thing.

I thought so too, seems to be to the point and having a visual is a good thing, because it shows you and get's you familar of all the plugs and such<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cyclops.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/04/12 01:53 AM

Can I use any of the timing parts from this block? If not what is required to put my 4g63 head on I have? I have been doing alot of research and found some part numbers but not sure if the ones I have on this motor are the same.
One last thing is the factory pistons can I use these for my turbo setup or do I need to get some new ones?
Here is a picture on the head sitting on the 2.4 lower end I picked up.
[Linked Image]
Posted By: fasteddy

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/04/12 03:02 AM

I think the 2.4 block is taller than the 2.0, so the timing belt will need to be longer by wice th edifference in height. Look up the compression height on both motors and that will give you the difference.

Have you been to projectzerog.com yet?
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/04/12 03:35 AM

Quote
I think the 2.4 block is taller than the 2.0, so the timing belt will need to be longer by wice th edifference in height. Look up the compression height on both motors and that will give you the difference.

Have you been to projectzerog.com yet?

I did find the spot on projectzero (I'v been on there almost evey day sense I started this project by the way <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" />)
where they showed a parts list maybe the longer belt is shown as well
ill look and see. One other thing I did see on my block
has the pads for the oil squiters they just need to be machined in. So I think I should have them put in, I have read some people dont run them..What do you think?
Posted By: fasteddy

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/04/12 03:57 AM

I like anything that keeps the pistons cooler in a turbo motor. If you run forged pistons, you may not need them. If you run hypereutectic or cast pistons, I think you really want them.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/04/12 04:03 AM

Your right I think they are there for a reason.
Ill find out what it will cost to have it done.
And while im at it ill have it honed and hot tanked,
Should I change the pistons out for turbo ones?
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/04/12 03:17 PM

Quote
Your right I think they are there for a reason.
Ill find out what it will cost to have it done.
And while im at it ill have it honed and hot tanked,
Should I change the pistons out for turbo ones? If I did
use them I am a little worried about having to much compression.


Found this on a DSM forum.

If your not planning on making over 450hp, stock rods and pistons will be just fine. So many people build there motors and dont even come close to 450hp.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/06/12 01:35 AM

I have two questions at the moment, #1 keep the balance shafts or not. #2 what oil squirter's should I look for. The lower end of this 4G63 2.0 I picked up does not have them and the guy said it was a turbo block but after pulling the pan no luck there <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
What about starion ones? Or do I need to stick with the 4g6X
Posted By: fasteddy

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/06/12 04:58 AM

Yes, and I have no idea.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/07/12 02:07 AM

Quote
Yes, and I have no idea.

I have read that these shafts being belt driven can break
and sending the small belt into the timing belt which will cause it to derail when it gets wraped up and will throw off timing, and then the worst thing ever happens sense is a non clearance head. So im scared now! I took them out on my starion and have some vibration around 3 grand but what if I have the whole thing balanced would that help?
I just want to do the right thing and have a solid out come
of the project.
Posted By: MontyMcV

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/07/12 04:34 AM

Balancing might help, but you cannot eliminate the vibration of an I4 motor. Has to do with the harmonics of the rotating mass. V-motors offset each side so don't need them. Question on that note, is that why a boxter motor is built the way it is, to counter effect the vibrations?
Posted By: fasteddy

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/07/12 07:02 AM

No, balancing the motor will not take out the vibration which is inherent in an I4 motor. A boxer is two 2cyl motors combined, MMcV. I took them out of my starion motor and always regretted it. It buzzed me to death, fractured the ps pump bracket 3 times, turned the a/c bracket into about 8 pieces, turned the objects in the rear view mirror into a blur, and vibrated my big gulp out of the cup holder at least twice when empty. Keep the balance shafts and don't wind the motor to 6000 and change the belts at the required intervals.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/14/12 05:49 AM

Well I took mine out of the starion motor when I first built it. I dont have the vibrationn in my motor as you experienced. The only thing about the 4g64 I dont like is the rubber balance shaft belts vs the starion chain style
that seems way stronger. Any way I will cross that bridge when I get there I guess. One other question I have is the pistons I am having it board out .20 and Im having a hard time finding stock .20 dish pistons. They are all flat top like what was in it stock. My compression might be around 9.2.1 or a little higher. What do you guys think? If I control my boost and Fuel/Air I should be ok.
Posted By: FrankR

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/14/12 12:05 PM

You may need to use custom pistons. Wiseco is one of many suppliers. I've used Wiseco and found them very satisfactory.

If you don't want to buy custom pistons, you can use a head shim to reduce C/R. Depending on how the head shim affects valve timing, you may then need to use an adjustable cam sprocket.

You can cover up a high C/R to a limited extent with boost limitations, cam timing, ignition lead adjustment and fuel mixture, but it's your choice and gamble in the end.

I'm using head shims on my 3.0L with Diamante small chamber heads to get to 8.9:1 with no intercooler, but I've limited boost to about 6psi.

If you think you'll end up with hot cylinders, make certain you give the rings enough end gap for expansion.

Frank
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/14/12 02:25 PM

Thanks Frank for the info, I'm going to check the cc's on my DOHC head and see where its at. I think the one I have is at least 47cc's if a little higher even better.
I was thinking aftermarket pistons but wow 500.00
is pretty steep, and would set my build back a good 6 months for sure. Stock cast .20 over are available all day long. What are stock starion are they forged? If not then I should be ok for this build.

Also I found this link on balance shafts its to the point.
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/balance-shafts.html
Posted By: fasteddy

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/14/12 06:41 PM

From what I've read, the cc's are the same on the sohc and dohc heads, something like 47cc's, iirc. Better check it.

Cast pistons will be fine if you don't ever detonate it. Forged are more forgiving, but not invulnerable to det.

The very efficient combustion chambers of the 4v head will handle a lot more compression than the 2v 2.6 heads. 9.2 may not be too much. The turbo Miata boys run high teens of boost on that much compression, making 250hp on stock internals out of 1800cc's without a lot of breakage. Their combustion chambers are quite similar.

Since the 2.4 dohc has a lot of squish areas, I would avoid a head shim. I've seen cases where with that kind of head, detonation increases after a head shim was used because the squish areas got too fat. Squish is an anti-detonant, because it promotes chamber turbulence when the head gets real close to the piston and the mixture gets blasted out into the open chamber. I think you will be very safe up to say, 14psi, with cast pistons and stock internals, IF you do a good job of using rich mixtures under boost and have good timing control. This means using something like a Megasquirt for spark and fuel control, NOT using a stock ecu.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/15/12 06:05 PM

I think your right Eddy, I have done alot of reading and found 9.5.1 or a little higher is not a problem if it's controlled like you said, I like MegaSquirt but seems you have to do alot to get what you want. So I have turned to a company called http://www.ECMTuning.com It's a stand alone system that used your eprom ECU and gives you control of all vitals for input and output such as your fuel/air ratio. Also you need to run a wideband o2 sensor so the ecu/ecm can get constant readings from the exhaust. I am simply amazed on how much these Dsm motors can put out on a stock platform with controlled boost. I have been told to go with a copper or steel head gasket because they hold up better.
One other thing is im thinking of selling my 14B turbo as I have gone to the Evo8 turbo and header.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/19/12 03:27 AM

I found these pistons and put in a offer for 75.00, what do you think about them Eddy?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DODGE-RAM-50-POW...528880926070890
Posted By: fasteddy

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/19/12 04:05 AM

Not for a 16v engine - those are old 8v pistons. Check the mfr's catalog...
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/19/12 05:22 AM

I have looked for 16V ones and no luck.
(Update) I may have found some, I will keep you guys posted:)
Posted By: PajEvo

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/19/12 06:12 AM

I need to do my Evo's timing belts as soon as I send my students home for the summer... I too fretted over the balancer belt, but I also like how the engine works with it in there, so I bought Kevlar timing and balance belts from Gates. Might be something for you to check into too?
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/20/12 03:07 PM

Quote
I need to do my Evo's timing belts as soon as I send my students home for the summer... I too fretted over the balancer belt, but I also like how the engine works with it in there, so I bought Kevlar timing and balance belts from Gates. Might be something for you to check into too?

I like the sound of Kevlar, I will look around for them thanks <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/23/12 04:26 AM

So they dont make kevlar timing belts for the 4G64 so im going to take the shafts out <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cyclops.gif" alt="" />. I have not had problems with my starion motor at all with the shafts out and I have gone everywhere in it. I have found the right 16V pistons as well, I will report as soon as they are in my hands>
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/02/12 02:11 AM

So I have a fresh board (20 over)2.4 decked Block with oil squirters machined in as well. just came out of the shop. So the Build continues......
I picked up some goodies on the way like a evo 8 turbo <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/03/12 11:00 PM

Here is the Dohc 16V 4G64 2G pistons on forged 1G rods:)

[Linked Image]
The pistons were kinda hard to find, but after you know what to look fot it helps. If anyone heeds help with this build I can show you where to look for the most part <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/07/12 04:28 AM

Here is the set up( No internals) I had to extend the header a 1-1/4 to get the clearance I needed for this turbo set up.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Kevin C

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/07/12 05:00 AM

Looks nice! I'm getting closer to being able to work on my Raider. I just need to finish my new shop.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/07/12 05:41 AM

Quote
Looks nice! I'm getting closer to being able to work on my Raider. I just need to finish my new shop.

Thanks Kevin! I was wondering how it was going to all pan out, but if theres a will theres a way! This will be the best combo yet. I have the 91 lock up tranny and front Lsd waiting for its new home as well. Woo HOo <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: fasteddy

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/07/12 06:45 PM

Are you doing the coolant reroute to the front of the head and blocking off the rear outlet? I hear the old bypass tube can be cut to fit. I also read you have to angle the tube up to clear the waterpump...
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/07/12 07:46 PM

Yeah I found a few ideas for the water system that looked good and should work. I would like to stay as far away from the turbo/header as possable. That might be the only tricky part
Posted By: TOASTY

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/07/12 08:52 PM

Wow, I always wanted to do this swap in a montero. I did the 8v 2.4 swap on my old '94 and i loved it once i got all the bugs worked out. Turbo's rock!
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/08/12 12:24 AM

Thanks Toasty im super stoked! I went the extra mile
ARP top to bottom <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/08/12 05:23 AM

Quote
Looks nice! I'm getting closer to being able to work on my Raider. I just need to finish my new shop.

So what are you going to Kevin when you get your new labortory ? I bet you have some goodies up your sleeve <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cyclops.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Kevin C

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/08/12 06:44 AM

http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showf...4&page=0&vc=#Post1271824

Post with the new shop.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/08/12 04:48 PM



Holly crap man thats awesome! I so have garage envy now.
good job <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: monte

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/08/12 04:56 PM

Quote
This will be the best combo yet. I have the 91 lock up tranny.
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />

I thought I had the best combo ever also.. Now I'm planning on putting back in 5sp once I figure out a way to stop breaking the overdrive gears! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Nice build though!

Here was my nightmare conversion back in 2010...
Jason's REDCAR Auto conversion nightmare

Kevin, you made some great points and facts in that thread! both engine and trans related.

I'm planning on going back to 5spd here shortly.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/09/12 03:11 AM

Thanks Monte! I will have to do some reading on that for sure. I see your running a 160 amp alternator whats the story on that is it GM?
Posted By: monte

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/09/12 03:44 PM

Yeah, it's a GM 160a bus/HD alt. There was a guy or company selling them ALONG time ago on Ebay for a decent price (like under $200) and I had to fab up my own bracket on 1 side.

Besides that, it's been bullet proof for 10 years or so.

Basically like these..
GM/Delco HO alts

Look on Ebay for them.. they are everywhere
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/10/12 01:30 AM

I like what I see there, What style belt are you running a V Belt or a serpentine belt?
Posted By: monte

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/10/12 04:42 PM

I'm running a Vbelt.. just a larger one. I have to replace it every few years because of the load of unit.. but at $7 a piece.. I"m cool..
Posted By: Kevin C

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/10/12 05:43 PM

Jason, Looks like a good setup.

Good to see you you posting about projects.

Kevin
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/10/12 08:23 PM

Quote
Jason, Looks like a good setup.

Good to see you you posting about projects.

Kevin

Hi Kevin! Oh man this project is coming together nice.
I should be making some good power at low rpm's for sure.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/30/12 03:45 AM

So I have made some progress, I have the power steering and alternator in place. The turbo is a Bullseye 57 Trim with stock dsm manifold. was going to run the evo 8 but changed my mind. Cant wait!!

[Linked Image]
Posted By: rxinhed

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/30/12 04:57 AM

What is the timing belt routing like?
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/30/12 08:22 AM

Quote
What is the timing belt routing like?

Hi Russ! here is a picture of a set up mine will look like.
[Linked Image]
Posted By: rxinhed

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/30/12 09:20 AM

By the looks of your engine, you've installed a BSE kit, too?

Sweet purple cam sprockets, batman! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/30/12 06:48 PM

Quote
By the looks of your engine, you've installed a BSE kit, too?

Sweet purple cam sprockets, batman! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Yeah did the BSE kit, Not going to have the fancy purple cam gears like that guy, just good ol stock mitsu. you do have to run the 2.4 belt due to the higher deck height as well. going to pull the starion motor/tranny out in a few weeks to make room for the beast. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: fasteddy

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/30/12 08:05 PM

Quote
Yeah did the BSE kit


You'll be sorry...
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/30/12 09:30 PM

My good friend builds some of the coolest and powerful dsm motors iv ever seen and all have BSE's kits.
NO real vibration from idle to 9 grand. The only way you will notice is with solid mounts, which is silly unless your racing. If you loose a bs belt you could blow your motor. What happens is the BS belt wedges into the main timing belt). Also Bent valves on a new head, that my friend would be devastating.
This 2.4 build is not cheep at all.. and if (any) vibration that may occur is worth it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/15/13 11:32 PM

IM back with some good updates. New mild ported head is on,
Figured out a good turbo and exhaust manifold option. shes looking good! Just need a few little goodies and adjust the timming belt and shes going in.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: lordtrunks

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/16/13 01:29 AM

why did you reconfigure the alternator and power steering?
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/16/13 02:29 AM

Good question! Well they are now in the factory locations and will not brake under a load. Also if I wanted to run the factory air I have the location freed up where it mounts to. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: DR1665

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/16/13 06:08 PM

Quote
why did you reconfigure the alternator and power steering?

That's where they go on the Sirius lumps. AC compressor hangs off the other side, closer to the firewall, above the K-member.

Coming out of one of my GVR4s last year:
[Linked Image]

AC compressor left chillin' on the K-member:
[Linked Image]
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/17/13 05:24 PM

What all did you do with your gvr4? I heard they were pretty fast cars.
Posted By: gmp22

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/20/13 08:18 AM

im thinking of starting to get together this same setup. But my question is what transmission is getting mated to this? I just got done reading pages of struggles with the right tranny for 2.6 turbo setups in monty's so will the 4 speed auto km132 hold up? this I guess is the question of all questions
Posted By: monterito88

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/20/13 08:03 PM

I like this idea of using a 2.4 block with 2.0 head, i myself have an 88 raider that was swapped to a 2.4 engine from a 1990 dodge ram d50 and was made into a carbed setup when we bought it. Now it runs megasquirt with a stock intake mani from the ram and mr2 injectors with accord throttle body. I could not get the stock dizzy to run the ms so i use a honda pickup coil unit (will convert to an entire honda dizzy with sensors soon...)

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/3gd16/FILE1314.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/3gd16/FILE1313.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/3gd16/FILE1415_zps819f5c01.jpg

In this last picture you will see the honda pick up coil unit
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/23/13 02:21 AM

Quote
im thinking of starting to get together this same setup. But my question is what transmission is getting mated to this? I just got done reading pages of struggles with the right tranny for 2.6 turbo setups in monty's so will the 4 speed auto km132 hold up? this I guess is the question of all questions

Hi there! well for my set up im going with the 89 V6 lock up trans, I have a nice complete unit with real low miles waiting to go in as well. I guess some have had problems with the over drive breaking but I think if I keep it off under boost I should be fine. Also you have to use your 4cyl bell housing for this swap to work. Im running a big trans cooler with fan now, with all the towing I do in the summer I have not had any heat issues at all.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/23/13 02:25 AM

Quote
I like this idea of using a 2.4 block with 2.0 head, i myself have an 88 raider that was swapped to a 2.4 engine from a 1990 dodge ram d50 and was made into a carbed setup when we bought it. Now it runs megasquirt with a stock intake mani from the ram and mr2 injectors with accord throttle body. I could not get the stock dizzy to run the ms so i use a honda pickup coil unit (will convert to an entire honda dizzy with sensors soon...)

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/3gd16/FILE1314.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/3gd16/FILE1313.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/3gd16/FILE1415_zps819f5c01.jpg

In this last picture you will see the honda pick up coil unit

Really cool to make this all work like you did. Must have been some long nights in the garage for sure. the thing is you are half way there if you want the dohc set up <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: fasteddy

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/23/13 03:00 AM

The KM148 (87>) a/t will be fine, it's probably the strongest tranny after the iron case V5MT1 that won't fit the 2.6 anyway...

The km148 needs a wide block 4g64.
Posted By: monterito88

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/23/13 03:18 AM

Quote
Quote
I like this idea of using a 2.4 block with 2.0 head, i myself have an 88 raider that was swapped to a 2.4 engine from a 1990 dodge ram d50 and was made into a carbed setup when we bought it. Now it runs megasquirt with a stock intake mani from the ram and mr2 injectors with accord throttle body. I could not get the stock dizzy to run the ms so i use a honda pickup coil unit (will convert to an entire honda dizzy with sensors soon...)

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/3gd16/FILE1314.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/3gd16/FILE1313.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/3gd16/FILE1415_zps819f5c01.jpg

In this last picture you will see the honda pick up coil unit

Really cool to make this all work like you did. Must have been some long nights in the garage for sure. the thing is you are half way there if you want the dohc set up <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
It was alot of work to get it to run this way, alot of headaches in this process. What do you mean when u said that i am half way there if you want the dohc set up
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/23/13 03:25 AM

I was just thinking sense you have the 2.4 block in already you could put the 2.0 Dohc head setup from a 4g63. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: fasteddy

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/23/13 04:09 AM

And the turbochargers and intercooler and 400hp and the wheeeeeeeeeee.....
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/23/13 05:50 AM

Quote
And the turbochargers and intercooler and 400hp and the wheeeeeeeeeee.....

Turbo spool up then ppssssshhhhhtttt..Slight pause, oh Sh*t wow lets go again!!!!!!!!
Posted By: gmp22

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/24/13 12:50 AM

so very true 2.0 head on a 2.4 a lot of fun!!! Are you putting in turbo pistons or going for the n/a compression. I think that bumps them up to like 10.1 ratio which would be great for e-85 but maybe not pump gas. For my build think im going to buy some turbo 2.4 pistons.

(Fast Eddy) good to know that the a/t trans in a 87 is the toughest hopefully these are the same in 88.
Posted By: rxinhed

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/24/13 01:35 AM

Quote
(Fast Eddy)


He used 87> = 87 up = 87 greater

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: gmp22

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/24/13 04:02 AM

check thanks
Posted By: off-roader

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/24/13 06:33 AM

Just ran into a guy today at the 4 wheel Parts Expo in San Mateo who's running a mildly built 2.4 turbo with inter cooler. Said its prob running at 350hp and he plans on running 400 once he's tuned it. Very clean, Very impressive build! Will try and get him to post his build thread here. But for now here's his build thread on Expedition-portal... http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/61161-Auto-Technica-Garage-s-Rally-raid-project!
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/24/13 07:31 AM

Quote
Just ran into a guy today at the 4 wheel Parts Expo in San Mateo who's running a mildly built 2.4 turbo with inter cooler. Said its prob running at 350hp and he plans on running 400 once he's tuned it. Very clean, Very impressive build! Will try and get him to post his build thread here. But for now here's his build thread on Expedition-portal... http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/61161-Auto-Technica-Garage-s-Rally-raid-project!


Wow this is the best thing I have seen yet!!! Man I thought I was the only crazy one..
Posted By: off-roader

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/24/13 07:35 AM

Quote
Um wow this the best thing I have seen yet!!! Man I thought I was the only crazy one..

Nope. Best part is, he's in Sac and a Very familiar with tuning those engines. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cyclops.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/24/13 05:41 PM

Nice I would like to chat with him sometime for sure <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/24/13 07:22 PM

Quote
so very true 2.0 head on a 2.4 a lot of fun!!! Are you putting in turbo pistons or going for the n/a compression. I think that bumps them up to like 10.1 ratio which would be great for e-85 but maybe not pump gas. For my build think im going to buy some turbo 2.4 pistons.

(Fast Eddy) good to know that the a/t trans in a 87 is the toughest hopefully these are the same in 88.

I went with factory over sized 2gen dohc pistons on 1st gen forged rods, They will work great. all you need is to tune your set up with the right Air/Fuel ratio and can make big power with stock parts. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/24/13 08:29 PM

Here is the water pump mod. I machined a press fit tube and used honda-bond to seal it inside and out.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[IMG]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: rxinhed

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/24/13 11:49 PM

Are you worried about turbo heat affecting the hose?
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/25/13 02:29 AM

Quote
Are you worried about turbo heat affecting the hose?

I think im going to do a heat deflector, they make some cool flexable stuff. you can bend and shape any way you like.
Think it comes in square sheets in diffrent sizes. But yes there will be a lot of heat in this area for sure. Im pretty far away but want to be safe for sure. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
Found this stuff http://www.jegs.com/i/Turbonetics/880/20...CFU1yQgodYnUAZQ
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 03/14/13 12:59 AM

Quote
A 2.4 fits in an '87 Raider/Montero as is. You only need to whack the oil pan a few times/places to "clearance" it.

John B.

Hi there John, So im at the end of the build and getting ready to seal up the 2.4 truck pan. From what you say there is little clearance issue to deal with on the pan and front diff? I will have the v6 diff with lsd going in around the same time. Its a lot easer to make any mods now while shes out of the rig for sure. If its a few whacks then im sealing it up and will deal with it when installed.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 03/14/13 01:37 AM

So I have found a really good cooling Idea, first make one of these on the back of the head.

[Linked Image]

Then go to any parts store and ask for a 1985 Bmw 318i thremostat part#3578 (at autozone), they are 30$ and this is what it looks like.Good thing is you can mount it any place. you can cap off one in if your not using the heater (I am) and your good to go.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: MainstreaM

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 03/18/13 04:12 PM

In hose thermostat! I did this with my Jeep Liberty Diesel. It is holding up well with about 13k miles on it.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=63587

Kane
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 03/18/13 10:02 PM

Quote
In hose thermostat! I did this with my Jeep Liberty Diesel. It is holding up well with about 13k miles on it.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=63587

Kane


Yep I agree, My buddy has on on his turbo set up and works great. All I can say is where there's a will there's a way!
Posted By: ryany

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 03/19/13 09:58 PM

I'm not sure how you're plumbing your cooling system, but if your remotely mounted thermostat doesn't have a small amount of coolant flowing past it, it could remain closed well past the point of engine overheating. Without some coolant circulation, it won't be getting the hot engine coolant near enough to it to open when it should be opening.

Hopefully you've already planned for this...
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 03/21/13 08:03 PM

Quote
I'm not sure how you're plumbing your cooling system, but if your remotely mounted thermostat doesn't have a small amount of coolant flowing past it, it could remain closed well past the point of engine overheating. Without some coolant circulation, it won't be getting the hot engine coolant near enough to it to open when it should be opening.

Hopefully you've already planned for this...


Hi ryany,
These motors have cross flow cooling, my new thremostat will be only 6 inchs from the original location. There is a small weep hole in the thermostat and will have water pressure pushing on it tell its at the correct temp to open.
From my research a lot of people are using this due to tight spaces in the set up.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 04/20/13 07:10 PM

Some new pics of my external wastegate& down pipe.
[Linked Image]
Stainless tube mod needed to route exhaust back in down pipe.
[Linked Image]
Had to cut and re position the down pipe to clear firewall.
Posted By: justrob

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 04/25/13 03:49 AM

and theeeen?
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 04/27/13 06:06 PM

Quote
and theeeen?

As we speek im working on the electrical, Air/Fuel management system. I had two ways of doing this. Either a S-AFC Air flow converter unit made by Apexi electronics (which I have)
Link: http://www.roadraceengineering.com/newafc.htm
Or the DSM Link made by ECM Tuning.
Link: http://www.dsmlink.com/
Both of these systems are very good. you can control all of the fuel ratio tables under boost. Which is very important to keep things from a melt down.
Posted By: ryany

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 04/27/13 07:41 PM

Quote

[Linked Image]


Nice setup.

How far down are you going to take the divorced downpipe before it joins the main exhaust again?
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 04/27/13 08:09 PM

Thanks! This has been a really cool build for sure. I think I will add around 2" or 3" of stright stainless tube. That way I wont have to worrie about it trying to back feed the waste gate. Im running a Bullseye 57 trim turbo which is great for this set up, plus I was able to use a Stock but ported Dsm exhaust manifold, they are very strong and heavy duty. I dont like headers due to the heat they produce, the more you keep in the better and efficient the turbo will work. Here is a picture of a rw drive set up like mine.

Attached picture 1277950-engine3.jpg
Posted By: gmp22

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 06/05/13 06:28 PM

Any updates?
How is the wiring going?
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 08/13/13 10:13 PM

Quote
Any updates?
How is the wiring going?


I did get the harness a while back, it's pretty stright foward and doing the starion swap really helps with this project. Lately I have been working a lot so not much as been done. The engine is pretty much finished with only a few small things left to do. I did pick up a a dsm gen1 eprom ecu that I needed. For now im going to build my bumber and get the intercooler put in. (Which my starion motor now needs desperately anyway.
This fire will never go out.. may smolder once in a while but all I do is stoke it back up!

cheers <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 08/15/13 04:02 PM

OK so I am now going with a 5 speed tranny thanks to Russ!!
Oh I can smell the tires already <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
from what iv been told it frees up power and is really fun to drive. woo hoo
Posted By: MontyMcV

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 08/15/13 05:41 PM

Wait to you see how fast you have to pull second gear, with the low "truck" first gear. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 08/18/13 02:18 AM

So after some advice and research the Montero 5 speed will explode behind my 4g64....Crap
So I did find a good alternative
Might go with a Toyota 5 speed trans from a 99 4runner
Driver side drop and very strong.
here is the guy with the adapters, super cool guy and will
make what ever you want. I want to stay mitsu but still looking for the right combo!
http://www.billsautofab.com/default.asp
Posted By: geocrasher

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 08/18/13 02:30 AM

Quote
So after some advice and research the Montero 5 speed will explode behind my 4g64....Crap
So I did find a good alternative
Might go with a Toyota 5 speed trans from a 99 4runner
Driver side drop and very strong.
here is the guy with the adapters, super cool guy and will
make what ever you want.
http://www.billsautofab.com/default.asp


Also opens up a world of dual transfer cases.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 08/18/13 10:57 PM

Quote
Quote
So after some advice and research the Montero 5 speed will explode behind my 4g64....Crap
So I did find a good alternative
Might go with a Toyota 5 speed trans from a 99 4runner
Driver side drop and very strong.
here is the guy with the adapters, super cool guy and will
make what ever you want.
http://www.billsautofab.com/default.asp


Also opens up a world of dual transfer cases.


Oh yes it will!
Posted By: fasteddy

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 08/25/13 02:33 AM

Look in the projectzer0g.com forum for a post by Wild Bill Hincher that summarizes the water reroute work, and in the tech stuff for the old one...
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 03/25/14 12:59 AM

Quote
Look in the projectzer0g.com forum for a post by Wild Bill Hincher that summarizes the water reroute work, and in the tech stuff for the old one...

I found some stainless fittings I want to use back there now. Didint like the one I made up on the quick.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 09/10/14 03:31 PM

For some that are wondering what the hold up of this project is.

I have the 2.4 ready to go in but have sense changed my engine management system to the Haltech 1000
(1800$)Retail. This Ecu system will give me all the tune features I need to manage this setup.
I am close to buying It.

Here is a link to the Haltech Ecu.

http://www.haltech.com/product/platinum-sport-series/the-platinum-sport-1000/
Posted By: Malykaii

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 09/10/14 07:57 PM

So your thinking of dropping the dsm swap idea in favor of a v6? Im reading that right? Im partial to the idea of a turbo 4cyl in these trucks... but if your changing your mind... I call dibs on buying that tranny you built <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 09/10/14 10:51 PM

Quote
So your thinking of dropping the dsm swap idea in favor of a v6? Im reading that right? Im partial to the idea of a turbo 4cyl in these trucks... but if your changing your mind... I call dibs on buying that tranny you built <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


Oh no my friend , I would never go v6 now with this swap, I was just posting I have changed my engine management to Haltech stand alone Ecu thanks all!
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/25/14 03:03 AM

Hi Guys, so its been a long road but She is finally in her home. custom 5 speed and transfer case as well. I need to make a rear cross member mount. The cool thing is I can use my stock Trans mount but just build off from it. I have a lot of detail work to do in the engine bay before I install my new harness. Also I will blow your mind with the engine management im using. The Ecu is from a 2003 Mitsubishi lancer evolution. They are programmable and easy to get. average price 60$ You use a program called EvoScan and Evo flash to upload and download your tune. You will also need a Obd2 flash programmer called Tactrix openport 2.0. Also you have to make a pig tale from a 1gen dsm to evo 4 plug ecu, again not hard if you know how to solder and have some patience. I also will run a evo8 Maf and 750CC injectors. everything is completely tunable and loads of data logging which I love!!




Evo Scan program

Tactrix openport 2.0

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/25/14 09:28 PM

Here is some more info on Evoscan. If anyone is interested.




http://www.evoscan.com/
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/28/14 04:02 PM

Here is. Pic of the stock water outlet . I moved the engine forward about 2 inches to clear and have room to work. I'm making a water outlet to point in the direction I need to run up front .


[Linked Image]
Posted By: DR1665

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/29/14 11:22 AM

Dude. This is such a crazy build. Kudos to you. Right now, I'm back and forth between doing the same thing with my 89 SWB or building what haztoys calls the 2.6 "steamshovel." Still very much my daily driver, so it's all up in the air, but man, I've got so much of the 4G63 stuff just lying around after the GVR4s left.

Haven't been in this thread in a long time, but checking now, I've got a couple low-buck ideas you might be interested in before you put this sucker on the road.

1. Evo VIII cams. You're already using the Evo ECU, why not pick up a set of OEM "272" cams for $50-200? Head on the VIII flows opposite direction, but there are a couple ways to skin that cat. The cheap route involves cutting a slot into the end of the Evo intake cam and so your CAS will work properly and re-pinning it to accept the stock cam gear. The easier route involves a set of adjustable cam gears, which tend to be machined for either DSM/EVO. $50-$100 and a couple hours could net you some more HP, considering the stock Evo makes, what, 270hp? With that big hog turbo, you're already sitting very pretty, but if it's OEM quality and cheap, well, something to think about.

Link to specs, brief discussion, etc., over on GalantVR4.org. I've since gotten out of the GVR4 game, but still have my Evo VIII ECU (FedSpec, 4-cylinder, 5-speed Eclipse is the same part, just can't do digital boost control, btw) and cams sitting in the garage.

2. Cyclone intake manifold. It's a bi-modal, dual runner intake manifold for the early (read: 1G) 4G63. This is a pretty trick piece of kit. The primary runners are smaller diameter and longer, which typically nets people 40-50ft-lbs midrange. Once you hit preset conditions (triggered/activated via repurposed boost cut and fuel pump solenoids from any turbo DSM), the little wastegate jobber opens the secondary runners as well, flowing within 5% of the 1G intake manifold. Spools a little quicker, and more grunt building that boost to boot.

There are 3 versions, all of which are relatively rare, but pop up from time to time if you keep an eye out. Typically $150-$200 range. Any of them will do, really. I can't find the thread on the Galant board where a fella and I discussed specifics at length, but there's a turbo version, a non-turbo version, and a non-turbo, AMG version.

Keep up the good work. High five, brother.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 11/29/14 05:29 PM

Thanks Brian, I would like to hear more about your project for sure!!

This has been a really cool project. I have thought of using 272 cams(I've been looking).
They seem to be a rare in a used form. New all day long for 300-550$. I will keep looking
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Also I was looking into the cyclone intake, They are a little hard to come by. I was looking into the sheet metal evo 3 setup, because the TB is in the correct location and no mods are really needed. I really like input if anyone has tested one. I want to make good Torque numbers down below 2500 RPM so the intake is important.
As for the ecu I wasn't to worried about boost control at this point. I do have a sweet manual setup now that works really well. Having all the data at my finger tips will help me really dial this thing in. I bought a nice 10.1 led laptop just for this setup. I will be able to tune anywhere I go <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
Speaking of that, I will post a bench top Ecu flashing setup Soon. Thanks again for your input it is really appreciated.


I was looking around utube today and found this gem.
This thing is a beast!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkDe4AdgW5Y
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/12/14 03:53 AM

So I test fit the mods on the intake, really happy that I went with the 1st gen.
I ordered gaskets for the intake(2) because im using a Phenolic Intake Spacer to keep the temps down on the charged air.
What do you guys think??

[Linked Image]
Posted By: zarktheshark

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/13/14 11:47 PM

I like it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> the DOHC looks so cool on there. Since I'm fairly sure that I'm going the 4g64\63 route, I'm watching your thread closely. Hurry up and finish so you can tell me, I mean us, how it does <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/14/14 05:01 AM

Quote
I like it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> the DOHC looks so cool on there. Since I'm fairly sure that I'm goint the 4g64\63 route, I'm watching your thread closely. Hurry up and finish so you can tell me, I mean us, how it does <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Thanks! I love the way it looks in there too! Everything is going together just the way I want it to. I should have my brand new exhaust manifold early this week. I want to install my turbo so I can get the Evo8 Maf/air filter and turbo tube done. I am looking at aftermarket IC's to see what the biggest one I can stuff up front <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I plan on a full custom tube bumper so I should make enough room for sure. There is a lot of planning involved in this project not including the major $ investment.
With the custom adapted 5 speed this thing should be a lot of fun to drive.
Posted By: haztoys

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/14/14 10:26 PM

I have a Cyclone intake if you need one ..Its had the closed end milled open and a cover cap made ....I was going to use it on a rwd swap ...Thanks
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/15/14 04:15 PM

Quote
I have a Cyclone intake if you need one ..Its had the closed end milled open and a cover cap made ....I was going to use it on a rwd swap ...Thanks
im interested for sure! I will PM you my info.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/22/14 12:14 AM

So I test fit the Evo8 maf and turbo intake. will have plenty of room for IC tubes <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
The FP racing exhaust manifold was on sale for 175$ regular 275$. Should be here Tuesday I cant wait!
[Linked Image]
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/24/14 03:52 AM

Hi guys, so my new FB exhaust manifold came in. All I can say is wow. What a difference!!
I hope the pictures are not to big!

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: rxinhed

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/24/14 04:26 AM

I referred your turbo rebuild service to a gent on Pirate. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/24/14 04:36 AM

Quote
I referred your turbo rebuild service to a gent on Pirate. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Russ, He will get treated right!
Posted By: Kevin C

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/24/14 07:43 AM

Looking great!!! I think I'm having valve envy. smile I'm curious how that setup would work with my lockup auto. You just never know. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: TOASTY

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/24/14 04:38 PM

Quote
Looking great!!! I think I'm having valve envy. smile I'm curious how that setup would work with my lockup auto. You just never know. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


I liked the non lockup 4cyl auto with a turbo better than the non lockup V6 auto trans with a turbo, I think a lockup 4cyl auto would be the man. The smaller torque converter gets the turbo spooling quicker which i liked for my mostly around town driving.
Posted By: Kevin C

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/24/14 06:36 PM

Quote
Quote
Looking great!!! I think I'm having valve envy. smile I'm curious how that setup would work with my lockup auto. You just never know. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


I liked the non lockup 4cyl auto with a turbo better than the non lockup V6 auto trans with a turbo, I think a lockup 4cyl auto would be the man. The smaller torque converter gets the turbo spooling quicker which i liked for my mostly around town driving.


I agree that a little bit of stall speed is a good thing. My lockup converter is from a V6. I did send it in an have the fins modded to get a higher stall. Combined with the small turbo from the stock starion engine, it spools very well. A decent down pipe off the turbo also made a huge difference.

From what I have read, the stock 2.0 turbo on a 2.4 spools pretty quickly.

I have been fooling with 2.6 motors for a long long time, it works, but at the same time it getting a bit boring. That the the valve cover on the 2.4 motor is way, way cooler looking than the the 2.6's.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 12/24/14 07:18 PM

Thanks guys! I am really happy how things are coming out.
I did find a dual runner cyclone intake complete set up im going with. My fellow dsm guys said it gains 30-50ft-lbs on the bottom end <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 01/02/15 05:10 AM

So I have test fit the turbo with the new FP exhaust manifold, wow im very impressed with there build quality.
Forced performance makes good Sh*t but can be expensive.
I am waiting on my cyclone dual runner intake which should be here next week.
[Linked Image]
Posted By: lordtrunks

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 01/03/15 12:58 AM

Looking good I think you should run a real air box and not rock the open filter i think your looking for trouble leaving the filter out in the open like that. the gen 1 V6 air box is a good fit.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 01/03/15 01:35 AM

Quote
Looking good I think you should run a real air box and not rock the open filter i think your looking for trouble leaving the filter out in the open like that. the gen 1 V6 air box is a good fit.


You are on to something,I want build a aluminum sheet metal cold air unit.I might end up doing a snorkel like some of you guys do. Last thing I want is to suck up hot engine heat from under the hood. I will look at the v6 housing and see if I can save myself some building time.
Thanks for the idea <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: rxinhed

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 01/03/15 01:58 AM

I have some Starion A/F assembles if you'd like one.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 01/03/15 07:12 PM

Quote
I have some Starion A/F assembles if you'd like one.

Thanks Russ, I will way my options and see what would fit best. I want to upgrade my battery capacity so that's a factor too.
Posted By: rxinhed

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 01/04/15 09:50 PM

Group 27 fits on the OE battery tray in that position. Otherwise, could relocate to front left behind headlight, there's already a divot for that position.
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 01/05/15 02:09 AM

Quote
Group 27 fits on the OE battery tray in that position. Otherwise, could relocate to front left behind headlight, there's already a divot for that position.

Thanks Russ, I will look into the group 27. Is it much bigger than stock do you know? I would love dual optima or odyssey battery's but wow that's like 400$ right there!
Maybe I can do one at a time
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 01/30/15 11:28 PM

Test fitting top aluminum water line. This [censored] was thick and bent really nice in the tube bender. Will need to trim a little off at the radiator side and make a few hold down brackets but that's pretty much it.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: zarktheshark

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 01/31/15 06:06 AM

How do the heater core lines run?
Posted By: 87monty

Re: 4Cyl turbo Vs V6 3.0? - 02/01/15 01:27 AM

Going to use one of the original locations on the thermostat for one side. Then weld in a bung on the water pump exit tube I machined. Should work out good. Not sure he same guy on FB but I pasted this here too <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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