4x4Wire TrailTalk

New kind of lift

Posted By: k120189

New kind of lift - 05/28/09 09:34 PM

so everyone talks about dropping the front diff...which doesnt seem too hard by why stop there for only an inch of lift why not drop the whole front suspension down?

im starting to design a front lift that will be in th 6-8inch range making 33-35's possible.

so far the things i foresee needing changing are:
brake lines
swaybar
maybe the drive shaft?

so help me out here i'll gladly share any blueprints i come up with and how would i go about matching that in the rear?

my thoughts are if tj 106 lift four inch then tj 3inch or so lift coils will put me where i want to be.

to me this all seems simple but i dont see it done much is there something im missing?
Posted By: DennisThompson

Re: New kind of lift - 05/28/09 11:36 PM

I have been going over something like that in my head for years and even tried to draw up some plans. I even have dif drop down brackets made. There is one part I have been having problems with, the upper control arms. I think you could make a custom pair to fit in the stock mounts but drop down mounts would be hard because the mounts on the frame are on a slight angle. Please post what you come up with, I realy want 35s on my kia. I have been thinking hard on a sas while the engine is out but I need to go wheelin soon or I'll go crazy, the Probe is fast fun but I would rather be wheelin.

Dennis
Posted By: DEFBOY35

Re: New kind of lift - 05/29/09 02:23 AM

have had ample oportunity the last couple weeks to look at how it could be done and was thinking of making up some plans for this style of lift.

i was thinking of designing it to work with the rocksport or spacer lift and use the extended forks from korea, if one could get them, or have some custom machined out of billet or something.

but i was also thinking that the control arms would be new wide long travel units combined with the extended lift. so custom cvs would need to be sourced etc. drop the dif down about 2 or 3 ".

but i would not have been able to test it all in my truck anymore, so perhaps if i do get a second sporty down the road it may happen.

the rear at that height you would be looking probably new longer control arms, and shocks and the springs, and the tj lift coils is what i was toying with. might be excessively stiff though for the sporty.

how does the stock tj coils ride?
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 05/29/09 02:42 AM

my tj coils are nothing to complain about they ride nice flex good..it feels like a truck now vs something that wanted to be.i had the same idea about the extended forks too.

dennis i see what u mean im sure i can find a way around
[Linked Image]

upper arm problem solved...problem two...

STEERING!
the steering rods pivot at a point near the lower arm as you can see..if we dropped the arm 8in we would have to drop the
rod too..or else forget bump steer it'll be bump toe hit a bump and u'll toe out major.. ideas? i'll post some of my sketches up ina bit..if you can even take anything from them

clickable thumbnails

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Posted By: fokion

Re: New kind of lift - 05/29/09 04:53 AM

take a look at the Calmini kit for the Nissan Navara..
it will give you ideas for many things
specialy the upper thing.
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 05/29/09 01:57 PM

i got that figured out..two ways
will post scans later.

dennis
can u post pictures of your diff drop brackets?

deffboy is your sporty still apart? can u measure from the hole in the upper arm mount straight down to the hole in the lower arm mount. i found a was to make this work but that number would almost be the amount of lift
Posted By: DEFBOY35

Re: New kind of lift - 05/30/09 12:50 AM

the sport is still apart, but there is no possible way for me to take that measurement anymore at this point!

i was thinking before, that instead of dropping the uppers down, i would have machined a new upper balljoint spacer that would bolt into the top of the knuckle and correct the geometry.
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 05/30/09 03:47 AM

started the sas did ya?

i'll post a screen shot of my idea in cad in a bit
Posted By: fokion

Re: New kind of lift - 05/30/09 06:25 AM

Quote
i was thinking before, that instead of dropping the uppers down, i would have machined a new upper balljoint spacer that would bolt into the top of the knuckle and correct the geometry.


me too
Posted By: DEFBOY35

Re: New kind of lift - 05/30/09 07:26 AM

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 05/30/09 04:03 PM

well for a ball joint spacer to work it would have to be about 4-5 inches if u wanted some travel..the balljoint is about maxed out with 4 inches of lift.well here is my idea use the bottom arm mounts to make a whole new set of mounts if it dont make since the pic might help..if anyone has solidworks 05 or older i can post the sprt file too. btw there were no measurements taken this was just taking an idea from paper and making ti a little more 3d
[Linked Image]
Posted By: fokion

Re: New kind of lift - 05/30/09 06:26 PM

Were it is connected to the car??
Posted By: fokion

Re: New kind of lift - 05/30/09 06:29 PM

Have you consider the idea instead of using upper and lower arm to use only a lower in a macferson style like the vitaras?????

( Maybe a complete set from a vitara...)
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 05/30/09 07:17 PM

it mounts to the lowers only
and the new upper and lower mounts are built into it
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 06/15/09 11:08 PM

i figured out a way to keep the upper arms where they are. there is a company that makes balljoint extensions but at 300usd a set forget that i have a new idea. it'll take a set of modified upper arms (under 150 for the both) and a small adapter bracket. i'll upload a pic in just a sec. but i gotta get this out before i forget. the upper arm will have the stock joint cut out and a threaded tube welded in. a bushing will then thread into the threaded tube and a small adapter bracket will then bolt onto the knuckle adapting the old balljoint mount into a new bushing mount the upper balljoint will no longer exist or limit travel and the bushing can be adjust for major changes in camber.

EDIT:
[Linked Image]

ok there's one part i messed up on the bracket will need to be a little different for this to work but it can and will still work
Posted By: fokion

Re: New kind of lift - 06/16/09 03:05 PM

Why make it so complicated and not jyst extend the upper ball joint??
( Thats what I am planing anyway..)
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 06/16/09 03:56 PM

two reasons. travel and price. balljoint extensions are hard to find. and u still retain 20ish degrease max misalignment. with the bushing and small bracket it would be cheaper then extensions and allow travel only limited by the strut and lower ball joint. so with a pair or coil overs 15 or so inches of travel is easily obtainable. im not downing extensions. its a good idea. im just after way more travel.
Posted By: fokion

Re: New kind of lift - 06/16/09 04:15 PM

Have you consider the fact that in a "way more travel" situation, unlike in a solid axle you are narrowing the between the wheels distance???

your center of rotarion of the arm is given your radius is small beeng the length of the arm so after a point, each centimiter of downward travel will jave a huge impact on that distance..

( jyst for arguing purposes only!!!)
Hope this dosent sound much Greek to you
since I dont remember how its called the distance between the two wheels <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 06/16/09 10:26 PM

yes i do realize at full drop and full compression the track width(the phrase i think u were looking for) will be less. but thats ok cause im running less off-set in the wheels making it a bunch wider
Posted By: minydigger

Re: New kind of lift - 06/17/09 02:54 AM

I dont think he was referring to your rims being the problem but the axle shafts. Unless you use some fancy custom shafts that have slip built into them. Just spit ballin here
Posted By: fokion

Re: New kind of lift - 06/17/09 04:52 AM

the length and angle of the joints of the half shafts is an other problem for consideration

too much offset rims may destroy your bearings rapidly...
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 06/17/09 04:35 PM

i plan on keeping the stock track width and just add more travel. and an inch or so less offset on each side it all im gonna do..keep throwing possible problems at me this is helping me design this
Posted By: fokion

Re: New kind of lift - 06/17/09 08:11 PM

Thats exactlly what I hope you understand I am doing and not trying to be a smart <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/butwiggle.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: fokion

Re: New kind of lift - 06/17/09 08:58 PM

are you planing on lowering also the diff??
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 06/17/09 09:36 PM

yes im gonna drop it 4 inches. im hoping dennis will post pictures of the drop brackets he had made.

so the front will consist of my modded upper arm/bushing system. 4 inch diff drop brackets. 4 inch lower control arm drop brackets. and until i go coil over a 4 inch strut spacer. along with the odds and ends like sway bar drop brackets yadda yadda. in the back im using tj 3 inch lift springs and extending the panhard bar and i might make a set of modified control arms so i can adjust it all. i want to get all the kinks outta this and make the kit or plans avalible to other kia nuts
Posted By: jaboo5322

Re: New kind of lift - 06/17/09 10:27 PM

With that much travel in the rear, in my head i was seeing longer panhard rod mounts. I would just think that it would have too much angle, and shift the rear axle too much, if you had any weight in it, i guess. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 06/17/09 11:01 PM

good point..i was thinking the same thing..a mount would almost be easier too..
Posted By: Dryver

Re: New kind of lift - 06/18/09 02:25 AM

Perhaps instead of installing a longer panhard rod, you would need to go with a Watt's linkage setup to keep the rear axle from shifting.
Posted By: jaboo5322

Re: New kind of lift - 06/18/09 02:33 AM

Watt did you say? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Hahahaha. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" /> Looks kinda cool. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: minydigger

Re: New kind of lift - 06/18/09 11:46 AM

I also dont think a bushing is going to work out in that app. as it will cause to much deflection and wear to quickly. You might use a hiem or a uniball of some sort.
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 06/18/09 03:16 PM

yea im probly going to end up just going with a balljoint extension to tell you the truth. watts links are really cool but i see them being more practical in a lowered vehicle. im just gonna drop the upper panhard mount
Posted By: fokion

Re: New kind of lift - 06/19/09 09:08 AM

Now that we have "solved" the front part lets talk about the rear...
Dint now if you vave mentioned it but you will have to make longer the 2 control arms on the side + the small one on the center because otherwise you will "shorten" the distance between the front an de rear weels... by 2 - 3 cm ( approx an inch or more )
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 06/19/09 02:20 PM

yes as u go up it will move the wheels toward the front of the car i plan on making adjustable arms. just gonna take stock ones and add a threaded tube end and a heim joint. i could make new arms as well but im not sure how much longer to make them.
Posted By: jaboo5322

Re: New kind of lift - 06/19/09 02:29 PM

I never thought of using the old rods with new joints. perfect. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Dave Scott

Re: New kind of lift - 07/29/09 05:03 AM

sure, you could drop the diff, and the upper and lower control arms and the brake hoses and the struts and the ....

better idea, why not go and do what the guys in the late 80's were doing and just weld a whole extra frame to the bottom of the sportage frame with the suspension attached to it... ???

well, because it doesn't give you better performance, that's why, it just makes the truck higher... ya know, like those guys running around with 24" bling rims and MT's with next to zero side wall and a snowplow under the front end...

like this:

[Linked Image]

BUT...

there is hope for a better solution! and an easier one as well...

this:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

a long travel kit with modified knuckles running coil-overs...

a long travel kit would be easier to build, easier to adjust, look better, offer more usable ground clearance and have a lot longer travel stroke...

it will however, be a little more expensive because you wouldn't be recycling stock suspension components, you'd be using all new race proven equipment...
Posted By: SKC

Re: New kind of lift - 09/15/09 09:09 PM

Well, I'm gonna bump this; I figure somebody can fabricate a long travel kit for a resonable price... Maybe we can find someone?
Posted By: SKC

Re: New kind of lift - 09/15/09 10:03 PM

I tell you guys what, if you guys can come up with a design for a long travel suspension for our Kias, then I will see if my uncle can fabricate them. He works for a major fabrication business, making hatches and doors for yachts and boats, so maybe he can a set?
Posted By: Dave Scott

Re: New kind of lift - 09/22/09 02:38 AM

i could design it all day long, but graph paper doesn't transfer to CNC machine very well...
Posted By: SKC

Re: New kind of lift - 09/22/09 03:34 AM

It would help, though, haha.
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 09/23/09 06:25 PM

i can do the cnc work and tool path.
got an idea for the upper shock mounts too.
ok what exactly does the half shaft hit on with lift just the strut fork?
Posted By: 0778drz110

Re: New kind of lift - 09/24/09 01:46 AM

Hi, I'm from the mitsu forum but couldn't help but put my 2 cents in...

cheap option as said above would be to frame stack but the would be...ya know redneck

IMO you should run a I don't know a 3" BJ spacer? Then have a 3" drop cradle with whatever springs you guys use for the 4" lift but with a 2" spacer.
Out back you could run 2-3" TJs but I would worry about those till you have a good plan for the front.

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 09/24/09 04:27 PM

that was my plan.
Posted By: SKC

Re: New kind of lift - 09/28/09 01:20 AM

maybe this site might help.
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 09/28/09 02:56 AM

kinda sorta but no. seen it we still need to design parts and whatnot
Posted By: SKC

Re: New kind of lift - 09/28/09 03:47 AM

I wonder is there is any way we can get a hold of Darren Skilton.
Posted By: Dave Scott

Re: New kind of lift - 10/14/09 05:53 AM

Quote
I wonder is there is any way we can get a hold of Darren Skilton.


used to be... doubt it now... i e-mailed him about 10-12 years ago. he doesn't like me much... i told him his baja offroad adventures kit for making the sportage a class 3 racer was too expensive, but i didn't know the cage had to be chromo and tig welded and cost 5 grand...
Posted By: Dave Scott

Re: New kind of lift - 10/14/09 05:55 AM

honestly, i'd talk to Spidertrax or Total Chaos...

but we could do it...

it just takes so long to get ready to do something like this when you're broke...

sux...
Posted By: k120189

Re: New kind of lift - 10/16/09 09:26 AM

agreed being broke sucks..i just got another rear axle for mine. repairs are killin me but you gotta fix it before u can break it. but back on track for the topic i was looking at the rear and i have some 6in skyjacker bronco II lift springs that look like they would fit and give it 8in or so of lift. but the arms will have to be extended at that height the axle it pushed forward way to much. so im gonna make a set of extended rear arms . which leads to needing an extended brake softline and e-brake cables.
Posted By: Hydra747

Re: New kind of lift - 02/28/10 02:20 AM

Just drove past an old toyota with this modified front suspension (IFS) today.......it was like an 8 inch susp lift <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


We can do this setup on ours prolly, but we need the producer as well as info on springs,susp parts, struts etc......If I am not mistaken..

I am willing to do this regarding higher lift if it is at all possible!?!?!!!


...There may be a light at the end of the tunnel after all... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


What say y'all?



Mikey <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
© 2021 4x4Wire TrailTalk