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suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts

Posted By: 4runnernomore

suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 11/19/10 10:10 AM

G'day all,

Recieved some more promising info from Robert at Offroad Boss on Thursday so I thought it would be good to start a new thread.

I sent him a heap of photos of the Sportage suspension early last week, front and rear along with a heap of info including the link to this site <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />.

He has looked at the photos and is over all impressed and pleasantly surprised about the Sportage. The best news is he believes he can sort out the front strut. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> I originally enquired about three inches or four if achivable. His font struts are height adjustuble. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

They are in the middle of organising an offroad competition (King of the Rim) and then will be concentrating on my little project

He has picked up a front strut assembly from the wrecker to measure off. He is hoping that he will be able to adapt their adjustable struts to the bottom fork, if not he will look at what they can do. Best of all is the price will be good.

12 stage adjustable shocks with lengths for the rear extending up to a meter if required. No dust shields to interfere with the rear. Who would of thought. Looks like we are on a winner. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I previously posted in the tyres and suspension that I thought the shocks might be American. They are made in Taiwan.

Any way here a couple of pics of their adjustable struts and of a ultra long rear shock ftted to a Patrol, as well as link to their website. I will keep you posted <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

How good is this looking, adjustable struts, long shocks, front lockers, snorkels, The Sportages are having a resurgence. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />

Cheers, Chris <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

http://www.offroadboss.com.au/

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Posted By: DamKia

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 11/19/10 11:52 AM

If he needs a test vehicle to fit it to, I live 10 mins away in Labrador
Posted By: promodmerc

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 11/19/10 01:14 PM

I'm drooling.. I hope this happens.
Posted By: hadtomer

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 11/19/10 06:31 PM

Hello

First of all- thumbs up for your effort-but there is a factor that you should take into consideration before you fit longer struts.
get the front of your sporty in the air using 2 trolley jacks-and take a long hard look at the suspension. you will notice that when the front shocks are fully extended the bottom of the shock (where the forks are attached) is about 3-4 cm away from the rubber cv boots. now-as long as you fit ANY kind of spring-even 4 inches of lift- onto the original strut-it wont matter because the bottom of the strut will never go any lower than the stock position. but if you will fit a longer strut than the bottom of the strut will be lower-which in turn will tear your cv boot to pieces. I am currently facing the same problem because im using a 2 inch lift coil and a 3 icch spacer-the result is that the bottom of the strut has gone down (cause of the spacer). i think that if you will fit longer front struts you will have the same problem.... so take a good look and do some proper measurements before you extend the struts.

ps: why mess around with the front anyway? IFS has its limitations- and that is it. fit a drop kit to the rear-or get some REALLY long travel coils and shocks for the rear-and that should solve any articulation problems.
Posted By: 4runnernomore

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 11/19/10 11:39 PM

Thanks DamKia,

I will let him know.
They may take you up on this.

Would you mind PM me your number?

PM sent to you.
Cheers, Chris.
Posted By: DamKia

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 11/20/10 12:14 AM

Hadtomer, the idea with those struts is that we could make our own offset forks and space the whole assy away from the d/shaft.
Posted By: DEFBOY35

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 11/20/10 12:29 AM

ideally, it would be nice to drop the front ifs dif down to accommodate the longer travel and lift of the new front struts. yes you will lose a small amount of ground clearance. having a tonne of rear articulation isnt always going to help if you encounter an obstacle that requires a little more in the front.
the next step would be the upper control arms and possibly some extended steering knuckles to help maintain proper camber and steering angles.
Posted By: logansportage

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 11/20/10 12:58 AM

Even if we don't change anything regarding the length at least we get the ability to have an adjustable strut. Currently the only options for a strut in the front are Monroe, KYB, and Koni. The Koni's are fully adjustable and rebuildable, but I've never heard of any body purchasing them for the Sportage. At a cost of over $300.00 USD each I can understand. They are also built for street racing and not designed for off road. These sound really good if we can keep the cost low enough for us Sportage owners to afford.

Logansportage <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: hadtomer

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 11/20/10 04:58 AM

Well-making your own forks woulb be ideal. a friend of mine has a set of extended forks on his sporty and they work well. 300$ for KONI adjustables? you guys have it easy!!!!!!! they cost 600$ with taxes over here. but theb again...a 2001 sportage is 10-13 thosand $ so i guess it makes some sense.
Posted By: logansportage

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 11/23/10 12:50 AM

$300 each was the price I saw last time I looked (~2001).

Logansportage <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: DamKia

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 11/25/10 03:36 AM

I've just been down and seen Robert about the suspension, Looking good so far. Explained and showed him all of our issues with the suspension design.

Explained and showed the clearance issues to the CV boot and the general unsuitability of using the original "saddle" unless we can get some more offset outboard to the whole lower mount to clear boot, possibility of new lower wishbone to place the lower mount further out (may ask about a new upper for clearance or may need to be done anyway). .

Looked at rear and decided that new mounts angled back would be the best option. Should have enough clearance to lower mount to use as is.

Might see if they can do a Panhard drop bracket too.

All in all a positive experience from someone enthusiastic about the possibilities.

_________

Needing a bit of input here.

We look like having about 4" of extra travel over standard. How do we want to "spend" the extra travel? My gut instinct is to go the 2" or so lift and have the remainder as extra droop, ie position the neutral point at about 50% of shock travel.

Remembering that height isn't everything (I am looking for serious and usable travel more than poser/idiot height). At that point with the new setup the vehicle will only sit about 2" higher but will be able to drop a tire into a deeper rut (+2" one side -2" other side). We currently have 10" travel with the stock shocker, increasing to an estimated total travel about 14" (with the ability to use that part of the suspension "tuck" currently denied by spacers or droop denied due to shock length)
Posted By: 4runnernomore

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 11/26/10 08:11 AM

HI Gary,

Thanks for going down and showing Robert.

I like this "the 2" or so lift and have the remainder as extra droop, ie position the neutral point at about 50% of shock travel." but would it be possible for around 75 mm lift if not at least 50mm as a minimum.

You are in a better position than me in regards to this as you are already running lift.

I am only looking at 235 or 9R max because of the gearing issue and still want to tow my camper reasonably easy with it. Would 50mm be enough or do we go for the higher 75 mm. The drop that ADS got out of his in the end was phenominal. It would be really good to also maximise the front travel to fully useable.

As I will mostly likely be the guinea pig for this I want to get it right the first time. Along with most of our OS brothers are wanting to the higher lift. If this is doable and works well would everyone be happy with 75mm,With good safe road manners?

Definately want to look at the panhard either drop bracket or adjustable too.

Cheers Chris
Posted By: DamKia

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 11/26/10 08:57 AM

Going overboard with lift is pointless because the lowest point of the vehicle is ALWAYS going to be the rear diff pumpkin. Too high and you end up with driveline issues (longbody)

I am looking at the 2" lift with extra droop as the lowest setting, you can dial in more if you want but with our NCOP rules we need to be able to show them 2" (after that, fare game...). These shocks have a threaded outer sleeve for the lower spring base so all will be covered.

How heavy is the camper? I've towed a 2+ tonne 12' x 6' x 7' furniture trailer 2700 km with no issues (110km/h in the cool of the day) on 31's. Anything up to a 1 - 1.5 tonne in a reasonable low profile should be OK (care with shorties, they are not rated to tow anywhere as much.)

I could well be the guinea pig for the bits over the next 2 months as they may end up having my vehicle for a couple of weeks to work on. (Possible new job in a few weeks FIFO to a mine.)
Posted By: 4runnernomore

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 11/27/10 02:50 AM

Around 1200Kg It's a CUB Spacematic. Sonme of the hills I climbed around Sydney had me back to first gearthinking don't die, don't die <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> (I have auto hubs still so wouldn't be able to wack it into low). On the highway no issues 110 with power in reserve. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />

Two inch would be easier and no BS with engineering. I have done two fuly modified 4by's now, fully engineered and road legal. I'm over the whole engineering thing both process and cost .

Are you up for new suspension again Gary?

My sporty is rated for 1800 kg. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Cheers, Chris <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

.
Posted By: DamKia

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 11/27/10 05:15 AM

Yep definitely up for new suspension. Old setup is about 6 yrs old, shocks are close to shagged.

Mine's rated for 1800kg too <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> (trailer alone was 1050kg <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: logansportage

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 12/02/10 05:58 PM

My vote is for 75 mm. I've got the Eibach lift now that has a 2.5" (63.5 mm) front lift and TJ springs in the back. I'm wanting a little more lift and will probably put in a spacer if getting these new coilovers is not an option.

If the outter body is threaded you can always dial in more or less lift but you will change down travel either way.

Having it set for 75 mm you could put it all the way to the top to reduce the amount of lift to less than 2" or push it to the bottom to get more than 4". The flexability would be awesome.

Logansportage <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: DamKia

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 12/03/10 12:29 AM

In Australia we have to be able to demonstrate 2" of lift. This will be the minimum you can dial in. You will be able to dial in more. A lot is going to be dictated by forces outside our control, ie shock travel (about 5" for the shortest or 6.7" for the longest strut), our pivot point on the lower arm, total shock assy length, and clearance to the driveshaft.

In all likelihood we are only going to gain a bit more droop due to the known "4" over normal" we can get now, but we will gain the uptravel we have lost due to spacers. So rather than having the (old shock length limited) 10" travel range somewhere in the total 14" travel available, we will have full use of the 14" of travel. Where you position you static resting height will be a matter for you to decide, but 40% compression/60%droop sounds about right to me, Going too far off the scale will end up with you continually lifting a wheel as one side totally runs out of travel before the other.

The "I want's" are going to have to give way to the realities and practicalities. Aim will be to get as much or all of the known 14" of travel we can get. How much lift over the new "normal" will be dictated by the spring rate, or how much travel you are prepared to lose by adjusting the height of the collar with the springs you have.
Posted By: logansportage

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 12/07/10 10:15 PM

Understood. Thanks.

Logansportage <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 4runnernomore

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 02/19/11 05:39 AM

I spoke to Robert last week and progress is slowly been made. They believe they have worked out a way to attache the adjustable front strut to our suspension. The best news is it looks likek it will be reasonbly priced. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> I will keep updating as further progress is been made.

Cheers, Chris
Posted By: DamKia

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 02/19/11 06:24 AM

I'll have to leave it in your hands for the prototyping as I will be moving back to Townsville in the next couple of weeks to live.
Posted By: 4runnernomore

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 04/14/11 01:49 PM

Hi all,

finally an update on the adjusable Coil over struts from OFF ROAD BOSS. The news at the moment is not that good. Here is what I recieved off Rob from OFF ROAD BOSS.

Hi Chris, well we may have hit a bit of a problem. Sai has machined up the part, but the problem is our shock seats the spring a fair way up the body, which means once its mounted to your forks, there is heaps of lift from the word go. We can't get the spring seat any lower than 95mm above the original position. Looking at the pictures of where it mounts to the lower control arm, there will be a bit of a ratio factor, so we may end up with more lift than this. I assume this is too high, and may cause problems. Let me know what you think. Unfortunately I don't know if we have many options with this one, but we'll see how we go.
Thanks again,
Rob

I spoke to Rob this afternoon and they are looking at another way to attach their Coil over shock to the lower arm. Hopefully they will be able to reduce the overall height to a usable one. With the part they have machined up it will lift the assembly over 4 inches pushing the assembly past the useable cycle and height they we have to use.

I will update you again when I here more. hopefully it will be more positive.
Posted By: logansportage

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 04/22/11 01:14 AM

What about changing the way their shock mounts via a stem at the bottom to flat like the current strut is. This would make it more like a drop in cartridge like the current strut is.

Logansportage <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 4runnernomore

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 05/06/11 07:34 AM

Well another update although not a good one on the suspension front.

I contacted boss again yesterday and they have not been able to lower theheight to make the front coil over strut that they use fit without major (read costly) modifications to both the stut assembly and the forks that they would be happy to release. So looks like it is back to the drawing board with either Ultimate suspension with there lift of 45mm in the front and up to 65 mm in the rear, or go the Dobinsons springs in a 40 mm or 75 mm lift and make the adjustments to make it all work properley.

Sorry it's not good news.


Cheers, Chris
Posted By: logansportage

Re: suspension for SPORTY hopefully longer front struts - 05/06/11 04:54 PM

Chris,

Thanks for the update. Bummer! Was hoping they would be able to come up with something that would allow us to fit their product into the Sportage.

Looks like unless we come up with something that drops the lower control arm down enough that we can squeeze their coil over in we are out of luck. Unless they can come up with a design that allows for dropping it into an existing fork assembly. Basically like the strut assembly we have, but with something that allows you to move the springs up or down the strut body to change the amount of lift.

Logansportage <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />
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