4x4Wire TrailTalk

Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers.

Posted By: kia74

Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/09/12 11:40 AM

Who wants to talk lockers ATTENTION PEABODY.your ears will be pricked <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 2002_Sporty

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/09/12 12:37 PM

Sportage Lockers are a dream for most of us and a gift for a select few that have the knowlege of foreign speech.

No one to date has been able to produce a simple point of origin for purchase; beyond helping themselves.

If you have knowlege on this matter, please share.
Posted By: 4runnernomore

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/09/12 01:34 PM

Kaiser lockers from Brazil <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />They make a front locker. For the Aussies combined with the rear limited slip should make a fantastic combination. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I recieved mine just before Christmas <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/butwiggle.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/butwiggle.gif" alt="" />

It is in a previous thread. They should still have four avaialble for immediate shipping as they made five. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />

The offer was there for all to jump onboard however no one took it up. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />

I have been trying to contact Korea again for the RIng and Pinions however no reply. Should have got them earlier when communication was going through. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Dryver

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/09/12 09:34 PM

Last I knew, you had received it and were going to post pictures, but you were sick with the flu. I don't recall seeing anything after that. Did you get it installed? Pics? Does it work well?
Posted By: kia74

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/09/12 11:13 PM


well looks like we have a few intersted.
ok first of all mine name is Nick and have been building this care for two years.What we need to sort out is the correct definition of the word (locker).A locker is only a traction aid period.Dose not matter what it is called but it is not a %100 locked diff.If you do not agree with what i said i an sorry but dont chim in on this thread.I hate lockers period.Now a DIFF LOCK is what i want people to talk about, were it %100 locked buy a flick of a switch or when you the driver want it locked.Now your saying this is crap no aviliable part.Well there is not, so like all the other stuff i have made for this car including crawler gears lets make one. Are we still interested.Remember if your a fan of the LOCKER,LSD ECT do not chime in. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: kia74

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/09/12 11:19 PM

[
These are (LOCKERS a traction device) not a diff lock. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />






quote]Sportage Lockers are a dream for most of us and a gift for a select few that have the knowlege of foreign speech.

No one to date has been able to produce a simple point of origin for purchase; beyond helping themselves.

If you have knowlege on this matter, please share. [/quote]
Posted By: Peabody

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/10/12 03:35 AM

Whoa! I feel something burning!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/butwiggle.gif" alt="" /> Did someone mention "lockers"?!? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" />

Here are the options that I know of for the Sportage...

Front differential:

Any differential spec'd for the Mazda Miata ('94-05) and RX7 ('86-91, 2nd gen/non-turbo with the big axles - 26 splines X 27mm). This includes any Mazda or aftermarket differentials (Kaiser, Quaife, Kaiser (as noted) and the OBX Racing helical/torsen-type sold on eBay. They all use 7" ring gears. So they only work in the front - THEY WILL NOT WORK IN THE REAR AXLE!!!! So don't even bother trying... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />



Rear differential:

The options are very limited. You can go with a clutch-type LSD from a donor-Sportage or see if you can find one of the discontinued-LSDs from Eaton (check out eBay).

Kaiser does not make a locker for the rear axle. I had some dialogue with them on the topic, trying to get them to prototype a 7.5" ring gear mount (their diffs bolt the carrier ends onto a cylindrical housing, so it would only be a matter of replacing the 7" mounting flange). Unfortunately, they did not have any Kia lockers in stock and will not be producing them until they had 10 units pre-ordered. To sum it up, they weren't really interested.

The only other option, which I believe is the best if you're going to be 4-wheelin, is the Lock Right-style locker from Track Finder. Hadtomer has one in his ride and has posted some impressive demo videos of it in action. However, he lives in Israel and was able to source the part from South Korea. Nobody in the U.S. has one (that I know of). And nobody has had any luck communicating with the known-contacts in Israel, or South Korea, for that matter. I've been actively-working on solving that problem. I have found a seller on eBay that is based in South Korea. I have worked out a deal with him to buy the part for $600 USD. I'm just waiting for six Benjamins to accumulate in my pocket so I can execute the purchase. That should happen before the end of February. I will absolutely let everyone know how it works out (both the purchase-process and the install of the Track Finder locker, assuming the deal goes through without a hitch). Once I have the part, I will also pass on the contact info for the seller. I'm holding off on that because I don't want anyone to jump on it and get screwed ("Hey! You said this guy was reliable!!!" <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" />)... not because I want to be the first kid on my block with a rear locker.

Anyhoo, I know people are going to grumble at the thought of $600 USD for a locker that can be purchased in Korea for $410 USD, which is on-par with the price for a Lock Right-brand locker sold in the U.S. However, as stated before, nobody has been able to get one shipped into the U.S. And I'm willing to pay the extra $$$ to get the best-option differential for my rig. On that note, a new Eaton LSD sells for $599 USD on eBay and the Kaiser lockers for the front axle sell for over $700 USD. Kaiser is not an option for the rear diff. Also, clutch-LSDs require synthetic diff oil (not a major issue) and clutches wear out... and you can't find replacement clutch packs for them (major issue). You might find a used clutch-LSD on a donor-Sportage for less. But the clutch pack has miles on it. How many miles are left??? Who knows - but I sure as <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" /> don't want to find out on a remote trail... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" /> Yeah, so it's go big <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />... or go home... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/baby.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: kia74

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/10/12 05:34 AM










UUUMMM somebody has jumped up ,mornen peabody, Even you are confused what is a locker and what is a diff lock.
Again a locker is somthing that could be engaged or could not be engaged who Knows it needs the right conditions to suit itself.We need to understand what we want to achive, a %100 lockup at the control of the driver.LOCK RIGHT is not a diff lock it is something you may need to get up your sandy drive way or keep you straight on a slippery road,it is a traction device and it is JUNK PERIOD. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/mrt.gif" alt="" />This thread is for the people who want to put a diff lock in the rear of there g1 sportage,I have lots off info to share but i need the right people to chime in that way we work to the point and do not go off in a tangent.PEABODY you need to stay in this,your info is closer than you think <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />






[quo
te]Whoa! I feel something burning!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/butwiggle.gif" alt="" /> Did someone mention "lockers"?!? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" />

Here are the options that I know of for the Sportage...

Front differential:

Any differential spec'd for the Mazda Miata ('94-05) and RX7 ('86-91, 2nd gen/non-turbo with the big axles - 26 splines X 27mm). This includes any Mazda or aftermarket differentials (Kaiser, Quaife, Kaiser (as noted) and the OBX Racing helical/torsen-type sold on eBay. They all use 7" ring gears. So they only work in the front - THEY WILL NOT WORK IN THE REAR AXLE!!!! So don't even bother trying... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />



Rear differential:

The options are very limited. You can go with a clutch-type LSD from a donor-Sportage or see if you can find one of the discontinued-LSDs from Eaton (check out eBay).

Kaiser does not make a locker for the rear axle. I had some dialogue with them on the topic, trying to get them to prototype a 7.5" ring gear mount (their diffs bolt the carrier ends onto a cylindrical housing, so it would only be a matter of replacing the 7" mounting flange). Unfortunately, they did not have any Kia lockers in stock and will not be producing them until they had 10 units pre-ordered. To sum it up, they weren't really interested.

The only other option, which I believe is the best if you're going to be 4-wheelin, is the Lock Right-style locker from Track Finder. Hadtomer has one in his ride and has posted some impressive demo videos of it in action. However, he lives in Israel and was able to source the part from South Korea. Nobody in the U.S. has one (that I know of). And nobody has had any luck communicating with the known-contacts in Israel, or South Korea, for that matter. I've been actively-working on solving that problem. I have found a seller on eBay that is based in South Korea. I have worked out a deal with him to buy the part for $600 USD. I'm just waiting for six Benjamins to accumulate in my pocket so I can execute the purchase. That should happen before the end of February. I will absolutely let everyone know how it works out (both the purchase-process and the install of the Track Finder locker, assuming the deal goes through without a hitch). Once I have the part, I will also pass on the contact info for the seller. I'm holding off on that because I don't want anyone to jump on it and get screwed ("Hey! You said this guy was reliable!!!" <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" />)... not because I want to be the first kid on my block with a rear locker.

Anyhoo, I know people are going to grumble at the thought of $600 USD for a locker that can be purchased in Korea for $410 USD, which is on-par with the price for a Lock Right-brand locker sold in the U.S. However, as stated before, nobody has been able to get one shipped into the U.S. And I'm willing to pay the extra $$$ to get the best-option differential for my rig. On that note, a new Eaton LSD sells for $599 USD on eBay and the Kaiser lockers for the front axle sell for over $700 USD. Kaiser is not an option for the rear diff. Also, clutch-LSDs require synthetic diff oil (not a major issue) and clutches wear out... and you can't find replacement clutch packs for them (major issue). You might find a used clutch-LSD on a donor-Sportage for less. But the clutch pack has miles on it. How many miles are left??? Who knows - but I sure as <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" /> don't want to find out on a remote trail... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" /> Yeah, so it's go big <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />... or go home... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/baby.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> [/quote]
Posted By: 4runnernomore

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/10/12 09:08 AM

Quote
Last I knew, you had received it and were going to post pictures, but you were sick with the flu. I don't recall seeing anything after that. Did you get it installed? Pics? Does it work well?


Been on a trip to America as well as a carribean cruise and only got back just under two weeks ago.

Tryin to resetablish contact with Korea so I can buy 5.3 R &P's before installing the locker.

I will take some photos and post them up this weekend.

Cheers, Chris <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 4runnernomore

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/10/12 09:23 AM

Hi Nick,

If you have information to improve the offroad ability of the Sporty please share with everyone. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />

As I have found with the Koreans by the time you find out about something available the contact closes off usually before you can organise a purchase.

Your build sounds great can you start a thread and post up piccies and tech info on what you have done.

The only driver controlled difflock (air operated) that I know of was a guy from PRO TRACK in Greece. To the best of my knowledge no one was able to succesfully purchase from him.

I still have the link http://www.protrack.gr./

ADSKIA (Adam) tried to get one from him around 4 -5 years ago and gave up as it took way to long ( over 3 months).

Looking forward to your shared information.

Cheers, Chris <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: kia74

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/10/12 12:23 PM

Hi there i do wont to share with everyone but putting up a post 2 up distracks from what we want to achive here and that is to put a diff lock in the original sportage case.Photos is a problem for me but i am learning.Just trying to find out if anyone on this board wants a real diff lock or instead get a traction device because it was to hard or not enough ponys.Buy the way i am not sellen anything just doing a step by step pocedure on what i know that will work. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: kia74

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/10/12 12:54 PM

ok what we need is a list of key specification.I know they are on this board somewere but are they on one page.

1. Axel spline count is 26mmx27mm DIA

2. Inside DIA of ring is 117mm ( can some one confirm this)

3 What is the PCD of the bolt patten of the ring (meaning 10 bolts on a Pitch circul Dia of so many mm) needs to comfirmed. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

this will do for now and remember mazda was not the only one to make 7.5 inch rings quit common in all the motor industry <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: kia74

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/10/12 01:00 PM

allso i would like to point out can we do all our measurements with a micrometer to the micky hair so we are not guessing.Thank Nick <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: hadtomer

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/10/12 05:32 PM

WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT???? a greek diff, a limited slip diff (had it - not worth the effort), bringing one from brasil.....

guys - especialy down under- you have a diff lock maker only 5 flight hours away (no pricey shipment)-

DIFF LOCKERS ARE AVAILABLE FROM OFFROAD KOREA!!!! I have purchased one from a kia dealer in ISRAEL - the korean site is ok and their english is just fine

http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showf...8&an=&page=&vc=1

Im not talking limited slip - i mean a full locker - for both front and rear diffs. my locker is an automatic kind - much like the LOCKRIGHT you can find on many suzuki offroaders. it is NOT air operated like an ARB locker (you guys doun under probably know what in talking about). it works fine.
Posted By: Peabody

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/10/12 08:37 PM

Yes, I am confused too. If you are talking about a true "locker", then you are either talking about a full-time locker (spool or welded-open carrier, aka "Lincoln locker", named after Lincoln arc welders commonly used to weld the spider gears to each other), or some form of automatic locker (ratcheting or manually-selectable on/off). Here's a link that sums up the differences of each: http://www.offroaders.com/tech/limited-slip-lockers-differentials.htm.

There are more options for the front axle, as I noted earlier. But those are either clutch-based LSDs or Torsen-type LSDs, the latter allowing for slip, but transferring power to the wheel with the most traction, where the clutch-types do the opposite. Basically, the torsen LSD sends power to the wheel providing the most resistance (i.e. traction). Clutch LSDs allow the wheel with the most resistance to slip - the drag breaks the locking friction within the clutch pack (i.e. "breakaway pressure"), effectively-disconnecting the "lagging wheel" from the drive system... until the drag force is reduced to a point where the breakaway pressure exceeds the drag of traction. For off-road applications, the torsen LSD is better-suited because the power is going to the traction wheel based on the "torque bias ratio", or TBR, of that torsen-design. The TBR is a multiplier, of sorts. If you had a torsen LSD with a 3:1 ratio, then the wheel with traction will receive 3X more torque than the other drive-wheel. However, if you get one wheel in the air, then you have no power going to the traction wheel (3X0=0). That is a problem, but can be overcome by simply touching the brake pedal to apply resistance to the wheel in the air. Then your multiplier is functioning again. Ah, but I digress... Track Finder does sell a Lock Right-style locker for the front axle (which I suspect would fit the rear diff/open carrier of the 26-sline rear axle, but will likely never confirm). But they are hard to come by and a locked front axle is not desirable on pavement. And there is the Kaiser locker, which appears to function like a torsen in principle, but uses a ratcheting-needle bearing design to engage and disengage the axles, as opposed to helical gears.

As noted, the options for the rear axle are limited. And the only known locking mechanism I've found that is made for the 1st-generation Sportage's rear differential is the Lock Right-style locker made by Track Finder. I have not found any manually-selectable locker (air, electric or hydraulic) sold in the U.S... or anywhere else, for that matter. The closest I've seen was of a modified ARB air-locker in a Sorento: http://www.sorentosite.com/forum/printthread.php?tid=6428.

So what do you mean by "locker"???
Posted By: 4runnernomore

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/11/12 03:59 AM

Quote
WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT???? a greek diff, a limited slip diff (had it - not worth the effort), bringing one from brasil.....

guys - especialy down under- you have a diff lock maker only 5 flight hours away (no pricey shipment)-

DIFF LOCKERS ARE AVAILABLE FROM OFFROAD KOREA!!!! I have purchased one from a kia dealer in ISRAEL - the korean site is ok and their english is just fine


Hi Hadtomer,

Have you tried the link lately. It appears to be compromised. Every time I try to go the website and the various links I have saved both my computers come up with a warning saying that accessing this link will result in damage to the computer or the transfer of SPY WARE. ENTER AT OWN RISK. I have also tried to email PICORP over the past couple of weeks with no reply. Can you try from your end to see if you have any better luck?

THe Greek diff was another option we were all looking into around 4 years ago but as know one was able to establish a reliable contact, price etc it fell by the wayside. I included the link to his website and occasionally you see in other forums refernce to his business, so he does appear to be trading.

For the forum,

The biggest thing people appear to baulk at is the price ( no offence to anyone on the website). Over the years I have found various items like extractors, Engine management chips, Dual battery cradles, Difflocks, Other options to suspension, etc for our Sporty's but because these types of items are not freely available in America for the Sporty's and can be purchased for other models of vehicles quite cheaply over there people do not appear to want to spend the dollars for Sporty specific items that due to small volumeof sales and a niche audience will cost more.

Unfortunately availability of aftermarket support is very limited for our rigs and when an option is found it comes at a cost. Only some people have capitilised ;like yourself and I with difflock options and a few others from the forum.

Guys I think it is time to realise that if you want specific aftermarket items for the Sportage it will usually come at a higher cost than what you can purchase the same items for other cars in America.

I am happy to start another thread and repost all the items and links I have found in Australia that provide aftermarket support for our Sporty's. Perhaps the moderators could make it a Sticky for future referenceinstead of people having to search through all the threads to find the various options. Other's could add to it once they have purchased a part and support has been verified from other parts of the world. These include extractors or headers from wild cat/Genie, second battery trays from Pirahna, Cargo barriers from Milford, Alloy bars from BCF andTJM(not sure if TJM make theirs any more). Aftermarket springs from Dobinson, Ultimate and King Springs in various lifts from 25 mm to 75 mm.

Cheers, Chris. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: kia74

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/11/12 06:29 AM

can we not just get measurment and talk about the job at hand we need a mod here <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 4runnernomore

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/11/12 06:55 AM

Hopefully I still have the CAD drawings from Kaiser on the work computer.

If I find them I will try and work out a way to post them up.

For some one who has recently hit the forum you are promising a lot. I hope you don't get other peoples hopes up for nothing. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />

Cheers, Chris
Posted By: hadtomer

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/11/12 08:18 AM

OK- lets sort things out:

1. My rear locker - from trackfinder- is a FULLY LOCKING DIFF - it is not air operated, not electric- its an automatic kind. if you go to wikipedia- its the first kind:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locking_differential

Automatic lockers lock and unlock automatically with no direct input from the driver. Some automatic locking differential designs ensure that engine power is always transmitted to both wheels, regardless of traction conditions, and will "unlock" only when one wheel is required to spin faster than the other during cornering. They will never allow either wheel to spin slower than the differential carrier or axle as a whole, but will permit a wheel to be over-driven faster than the carrier speed. The most common example of this type would be the famous "Detroit Locker," also known as the "Detroit No-Spin," which replaces the entire differential carrier assembly. Others, sometimes referred to as "lunchbox lockers," employ the stock differential carrier and replace only the internal spider gears and shafts with interlocking plates. Both types of automatic lockers will allow for a degree of differential wheel speed while turning corners in conditions of equal traction, but will otherwise lock both axle shafts together when traction conditions demand it.
Pros: Automatic action, no driver interaction necessary, no stopping for (dis-) engagement necessary
Cons: Increased tire wear and noticeable impact on driving behavior. During cornering, the automatic locker is characterized by heavy understeer which transitions instantly to power oversteer when traction is exceeded.
Some other automatic lockers operate as an open differential until wheelspin is encountered and then they lockup. This style generally uses an internal governor to sense a difference in wheel speeds. An example of this would be GM's "Gov-Lok."

2 - modifications ARE available for the sportage - but do not come cheap - if i were living down under- id be very happy with what local firms have to offer - lots of stuff on my rig came from OZ- my LOVELLS coil springs - my old man emu rear tracking arms for instance. right now im saving for some extractors - also from OZ (pricey shipment...).

3 - whatever you cant get down under - you can get from korea -

diff locks - trackfinder

front extended forks ? got them too
https://picasaweb.google.com/108546094129487904656/TrackfinderLiftForks#5623151495809179170

4 - cant get the part? get creative !!! no rear springs for big flex? get some tj springs. no re locating the rear panhard mount? do it yourself -

https://picasaweb.google.com/10854609412...798459869793218

5 - yes - i will admit that modifications for my kia are far mor expensive than modifications for a suzuki - but the kia is kind of special...i like it. people with wranglers are always surprised on the trail - and i LOVE IT!! so im willing to spend more on my hobby.
Posted By: Peabody

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/11/12 09:06 AM

Oh no! My Sporty is LSD positive!!! Does that mean it has Traction AIDS?!? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 2002_Sporty

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/11/12 12:30 PM

My ears are pricked!!!
I love how all the information is coming out in this one thread. Thanks folks for putting it all together. Your the best.
Posted By: hadtomer

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/11/12 04:22 PM

DUDE....its not like no one knows how to get this stuff - you can read what mods i have on my rig in my signature.

I do not agree with anyone saying that mods for the sporty are hard to come by - I have anything you could possibly want on my rig - 5.38 gears, diff lock rear (still contemplating the front), lift coils, extended forks etc - and yes - they do not come cheap.

but come on guys....you all complain about how mods are hard to find - well - i live in Israel - if you open up a dictionary - under "sh##hole" - well - thats where i live - and yet i have been able to get all of this stuff for my kia. from a kia dealer!!!!! i WISH i were living in the states or in australia - so much more stuff i could do to my rig - and real cheap compared to what it costs here. but you guys.....you cant be serious......i have been a member here for several years and i remember several people who have kindly offered to get some lockers - well - talk is cheap - everyone wants a locker .....no one wants to pay.

you guys - you do not know what you are missing. a locker transforms your car!

so ok....offroad korea is no more - get creative! you can see on the pictures from my diff lock install - you can see the name of the company that makes the trackfinder lockers - woolong or something like that....aint that hard to locate them. we have sportage owners all over the world - from italy to alaska - and cant locate a company that exists and makes diff locks - this moment as we speak?

come on.....
Posted By: kia74

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/11/12 05:08 PM

Well its 12.30am here just got back from a fishing trip and my two arb diff locks work fine in the orignal kia houseings but i supose no won wants to know the steps to put then in owell <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/nana.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Peabody

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/11/12 07:56 PM

I guess I misunderstood something... didn't realize you already have ARB diff locks in your Sportage. Yes, I am interested to hear how you installed them using the stock differential housings. I think we are all interested.

I have tried to cross-reference other differentials that are of compatible-size with the Sporty's diff housings. All of the Sportages' differentials use the same carrier bearing (# 32008), which is also the same one used on the front-axle compatible differentials from the Mazda Miata and RX7. That was already known. And I haven't had any luck finding another differential using the same bearings. In the scope of things, there are a number of specifications that need to match, or be very close to the Sporty's stock diff's dimensions.

- end-to-end length (carrier bearings, flange-to-flange)
- carrier bearing specs (the outer cone/race diameter, at a minimum)
- the ring gear mounting flange (7" for the front, 7.5" in the rear)
- the position of the ring gear mounting flange, so that the backlash between ring and pinion can be properly set.
- Axle spline count and diameter...

I'm sure another diff can be modified to fit, along with the stock housing. But then you create a situation where getting it to work, and work properly is a "maybe" situation. And the cost of going that route can easily-exceed the cost of buying a locker or LSD that is a direct-fit.

That's the dilemma I have worked myself into with the OBX LSD. I thought would be a direct-fit in the rear axle, based on some posts I've read on this forum, only to find that the ring gear flange is too small for the 7.5" ring gear. I have looked into "making it work", to go as far as making a CAD drawing of the ring gear-half of the OBX casing modified with a 7.5"-compatible ring gear mount (which is the ONLY difference between the front and rear diffs on the Sporty, to include the 26 & 28-spline diffs in the rear - only the spider gear and axle spline counts and diameters were altered - nothing else). And what I have found that the cost of having that part fabricated will exceed the cost of a Track Finder locker.

That said, I'm very interested to hear how you were able to install ARB lockers in your Sportage...
Posted By: Peabody

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/11/12 09:57 PM

Quote
DUDE....its not like no one knows how to get this stuff - you can read what mods i have on my rig in my signature.

I do not agree with anyone saying that mods for the sporty are hard to come by - I have anything you could possibly want on my rig - 5.38 gears, diff lock rear (still contemplating the front), lift coils, extended forks etc - and yes - they do not come cheap.

but come on guys....you all complain about how mods are hard to find - well - i live in Israel - if you open up a dictionary - under "sh##hole" - well - thats where i live - and yet i have been able to get all of this stuff for my kia. from a kia dealer!!!!! i WISH i were living in the states or in australia - so much more stuff i could do to my rig - and real cheap compared to what it costs here. but you guys.....you cant be serious......i have been a member here for several years and i remember several people who have kindly offered to get some lockers - well - talk is cheap - everyone wants a locker .....no one wants to pay.

you guys - you do not know what you are missing. a locker transforms your car!

so ok....offroad korea is no more - get creative! you can see on the pictures from my diff lock install - you can see the name of the company that makes the trackfinder lockers - woolong or something like that....aint that hard to locate them. we have sportage owners all over the world - from italy to alaska - and cant locate a company that exists and makes diff locks - this moment as we speak?

come on.....



The problem, in the U.S. at least, is that the 1st gen Sportages are a very small market. So the commercial-interest in importing aftermarket performance parts was minimal before, and non-existent now. I think Israel is in a different situation, in regards to market size, consumer interest and the entrepreneurial-spirit in the business-sector. I am sure that if I walked into the parts and service department at my local Kia dealership and asked to purchase a Track Finder locker or some other aftermarket part, they would stare blankly at me.

I have read several posts from others in the U.S. noting that they had tried to contact a supplier outside of the U.S. but never received a response. I have personally emailed "jaffo" in Israel, as listed in your diff lock thread, but received no response whatsoever. And then there's the issue of dead links to suppliers (trackfinder.com, offroadkorea, etc). Personally, I understand these parts won't come cheap. Even if the selling price is good, the cost of shipping to the U.S. will add noticeably to the total cost (true for all international shipping).

That said, the Track Finder Lockers are being sold through a company in Korea: masterjeep.com. They sell for 460,000 won (~$410 USD). I have emailed them to see if they will sell and ship to buyers in the U.S. I'm waiting to hear back. If they won't sell direct, then I can get one through my middle-man seller on eBay for $600 USD. Again, you pay more. But I want something that works - absolutely. And I am willing to pay the price, for this part, at least. Once I have the Track Finder locker, I think I'm done buying aftermarket parts. Everything else I want, or have wanted to do, I can do using components sold in the U.S. (Jeep bumpers, snorkel, suspension lift, etc). I'm not here to cry about problems. I'm here to find solutions... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: DRX350

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/11/12 11:39 PM

On the diff lock from masterjeep.com, is that only for the 26 spline?
\
Sorry if it's been said, but I've got a '99 2wd and could use all the traction I can get!
Posted By: Peabody

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/12/12 12:17 AM

From what I heard from my eBay-guy, only the 28 spline locker is available for the rear. So you will be fine. I will have to upgrade my '97 to 28 spline axles. But that's only a matter of pulling the axle bearings to swap the retaining plates and installing new bearings. I have already compared the 26 & 28 spline axles. They are identical except for the splines. So any 1st gen Sporty can have a rear locker, regardless of model year...
Posted By: DRX350

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/12/12 01:28 AM

Quote
From what I heard from my eBay-guy, only the 28 spline locker is available for the rear. So you will be fine. I will have to upgrade my '97 to 28 spline axles. But that's only a matter of pulling the axle bearings to swap the retaining plates and installing new bearings. I have already compared the 26 & 28 spline axles. They are identical except for the splines. So any 1st gen Sporty can have a rear locker, regardless of model year...


Schweet!!! That's number 7 on my lift of things to do on the little girl...
Posted By: 4runnernomore

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/12/12 04:10 AM

Quote
Well its 12.30am here just got back from a fishing trip and my two arb diff locks work fine in the orignal kia houseings but i supose no won wants to know the steps to put then in owell <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/nana.gif" alt="" />


Nick,

As I said before if you have the information please share it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />

This has been one of the things I have really liked about this forum. Nobody is belittled and all information is freely shared and not kept secret. People are only too happy to let you know what works and what doesn't.

I am sure you have people champing at the bit now you have said that you have ARB lockers installed on your Sportage. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Also I am sure people would love to see athread on your Sporty with pictures and details of your mods which sound very intreging. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />

Cheers, Chris <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Dryver

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/12/12 05:27 AM

Quote
Well its 12.30am here just got back from a fishing trip and my two arb diff locks work fine in the orignal kia houseings but i supose no won wants to know the steps to put then in owell <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/nana.gif" alt="" />


So are you using the RD204 or RD208 for the front? I've browsed the ARB applications several times and thought a few of them might possibly work. Both the RD204 and RD208 seem to be for 26 spline 27.4mm 10-bolt ring gear applications.

As for the rear, do you have the 26 spline or 28 spline in the rear?

If you have information to share, just share it. Why all the drama?
Posted By: kia74

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/12/12 06:10 AM

Well i use a RD79 for the rear 12 bolt
Posted By: kia74

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/12/12 06:22 AM

and now you say this will never work right



Quote
Well i use a RD79 for the rear 12 bolt
Posted By: Dryver

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/12/12 05:23 PM

Quote
Well i use a RD79 for the rear 12 bolt


Just so everyone is on the same page, it should be noted that the RD79 is obsolete and was replaced by RD209. It is for 1993-2000 Suzuki rear end applications with 26 splines, 27.4mm axle shaft diameter and 12-bolt ring gear.

Nick, do you want to share how you made this work in the Sportage or should we all just move on to other things?
Posted By: shorty_sporty

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/15/12 11:48 AM

Hello everyone,

After hadtomer had initially found out that there were parts in Korea, I did a little bit of research into this and managed to establish contact with an export company in Korea. As a result, Chris (4runnernomore) and I were able to get our hands on a set of front extension forks.

Now, whilst it appears that the company we obtained these from went bust, I have found that the MasterJeep website is still operating and sells the trackfinder units too.

http://masterjeep.co.kr/ for anyone interested.

I have tried to establish contact with someone in Korea again, still yet to receive a response.
I will keep you all informed.

Simon
Posted By: shorty_sporty

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/21/12 11:38 AM

Ok, so I have managed to get a response from Korea.

They have available front and rear lockers, which can come with the axle housing (ready to just put the axle shafts into and away you go) or you can just buy the centres.
They do offer 26 spline and 28 spline, so this is good news for the those of us that have the older ones with the different front axle shafts.

They also offer an adjustable pan hard rod, and the 5.38 r & p which Chris has mentioned previously.

On another note, Outdoor 4x4 Auto in Brisbane have decided that they are going to start designing some goodies to suit our rigs. I will be letting them use mine as the dummy vehicl.

They have indicated they will be designing sliders, belly guards, rear bumper/step and a bullbar as well (i am hoping it will be a winch bullbar but this is yet to be decided).
They also already offer a snorkel to suit our vehicles already. I will everyone know what comes of this!

If anyone needs to get in touch with the people in Korea, send me a PM and I will happily forward the details to you.
Posted By: BAZINGA

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 08/09/12 02:07 PM

Would someone confirm for me please, what spline I have in my Australian 1999 Sportage (auto transmission) - front and rear - 26 or 28 spline
Thanks <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Peabody

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 08/09/12 03:22 PM

The front axle is 26 spline. That is standard spline on all 1st gen 4x4 sportages. The rear axle on your sporty is 28 spline. That became the standard configuration on all sportages from 1998 through the end of the 1st gen design. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Peabody

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 08/11/12 03:30 PM

I have verified a new source for the Track Finder lockers. The seller is the same guy selling the 5.38 ring gear and pinions for the front and rear axles of the Sportage (1st gen - Thanks Chris, AKA 4Runnernomore!!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />). You can contact him by email at [email]picorp@hanmail.net.[/email] He is in South Korea and ships the parts from there. Here's the response I received from him this morning regarding the lockers. The info below is redundant to my post in the 5.38 R&P thread, but has been added here because it is directly-relevant to this thread...

"REGARDING LOCKER FOR YOUR FRIEND,
THE LOCKER IS DIFFERENT AS PER BELOW DETAILS.
...FRONT 26 SPLINE LOCKER
...REAR 26 SPLINE LOCKER
...REAR 28 SPLINE LOCKER

THE PRICE IS SAME AS U$409.00 (locker only) PER EACH 1 SET.
IF IT IS SUPPLIED BY ASSEMBLY WITH DIFFERENTIAL CASE,
THE PRICE IS U$569.00 PER EACH 1 SET.

REGARDING PAYPAL FEE OF U$21.00
IT WILL BE ADDED PER EACH PAYMENT FROM THIS TRADE
WHEN WE RECEIVED THE PAYPAL AMOUNT, THIS COST WAS DOWNED AS PAYPAL FEE."


I don't think the 26 spline locker for the rear is available, just the 28 spline rear and 26 spline front lockers. If you can get the locker only, that's likely the better way to go because it will reduce the cost of shipping compared to the locker+carrier. However, the assembled locker is convenient because they provide the carrier, new bearings and thrust washers, and the locker is installed correctly with all clearances for the ratcheting mechanism dialed in. All you have to do is bolt on the ring gear and drop it in the diff housing. I'm not sure what it would cost to have a local mechanic install one. But when you factor in the cost of parts with labor... and the accessibility to the thrust washers (likely a dealer-only part), the cost may be comparable. The downside is that you'll pay more for shipping.

It sounds like he will add a $21 fee for service per item purchased. That's not unreasonable, in my opinion. I think I payed the eBay seller $70 US for his services. But he did a lot of back and forth between me and MasterJeep to get the job done, which I felt justified his compensation. I suspect the guy and PICORP will probably be more efficient and the end-cost will be a bit better. Regardless, he can get lockers!!!
Posted By: Davey

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 10/15/13 03:39 PM

Thought I'd post this here as opposed to the 5.38 gears thread elsewhere.

I purchased a bare front 26 spline TrackFinder locker, no dramas with the purchase process via PICORP using PayPal (see the 5.38 gears thread for more contact info).

So I get all active and remove/tear down my front diff ready for locker install, only to discover my diff carrier is worn beyond spec and is unusable for locker installation <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I should point out that this diff was functioning perfectly and quietly in open format.
The side gear thrust washers are almost perfect, but the softer carrier casting behind them shows wear, and when trial fitting the locker assembly for tolerances, it shows the wear is also uneven between sides.

The TrackFinder locker is available pre installed in a carrier (I believe with new side bearings too) for about US$170 extra over the bare locker, so keep this in mind if you don't have any spare diffs..

I do have access to 2 other diff assemblies I can tear down, so chances are one of them will be acceptable. But they're still chances <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Davey

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 10/22/13 02:15 PM

hmm, 2nd diff torn down and same results - not gonna try a 3rd.. will fit the thickest thrust washers available (2.20mm) and see if it works <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Davey

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 10/29/13 02:23 PM

After lots of searching and investigating several options, I decided to have some shims made to tighten up the tolerances for the TrackFinder install.
The original thrust washers were 2.1mm, with spacer/pinion shaft clearance of about 0.85mm.
Max spec clearance for the locker is 0.5mm.
2nd torn down diff had similar clearance as the first, but with 2.0mm washers.
So I got some 0.7mm 316 stainless shims laser cut, to use with the 2.0mm washers but in the ORIGINAL diff, gaining me 0.6mm overall each side.
It's now all within spec, assembled and ready for install <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Just waiting for my pinion bearings to be pressed on the 5.38 gearsets.
Posted By: Davey

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 11/04/13 01:14 PM

Finally installed <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Front TF locker tightened up with 0.7mm shims, plus 5.38 gearsets front n rear.

First impressions?
Steering (in 4WD) is heavier, alot more front end "push" on soft surfaces. As expected.

Quieter than I expected, only clunked it once so far too.

Climbing abilities - outstanding!
When trialling on loose rocky dirt, traction at the front on one wheel will pull the vehicle sideways, something to be wary of. Bit of steering into it helps.
Much less need (if any) to rely on momentum to get you though some big holes, so much easier on the underside, and the occupants!

Would I consider replacing the rear LSD with a 2nd locker?
Already am <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Davey

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 12/11/13 02:12 PM

Posted this elsewhere, but here's what our little KIA can get up to <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMSf3lOWHWM
Posted By: BAZINGA

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 12/12/13 02:01 AM

Go the mighty Kia!
Posted By: Tommychu

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/16/14 06:06 PM

I'm thinking about welding my front diff and installing a factory clutch LSD in the back so it's still well-mannered on the street. TF is a little outside my budget and welding is free since we just got a stick welder at work. My question is, is the front end (CVs, etc) strong enough that I wouldn't have to worry about breaking anything? I've got manual front hubs.
Posted By: Peabody

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/16/14 07:08 PM

Welding the front diff is a bad idea. The difference in the wheels' rotational speed is much greater in the front end vs the rear when turning. Factor in a series of articulating joints on the front where the rear has none and you've got a recipe for mechanical failure. Rear axles can get away with "Lincoln Lockers" (welding) or spools to some degree because the difference in wheel speed isn't as great and all the output goes to a single set of shafts. And from what I've heard from those who have tried, steering with a welded front end is nothing less than squirrely, to say the least. I'd say try looking for a used Mazda Miata LSD (geared/Torsen or clutch) for the front. They are a drop-in fit for the 7" front end of the Kia. I would go with the Torsen because they are strong and won't blow the clutches if you slam a wheel down after getting it in the air... And they don't need special gear oil, either.

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />

Note: I have an extra OBX geared LSD that I've modded extensively to make "bulletproof". I'm running one in my front axle and haven't had a single problem with it since making the mod. There's a thread here on the forum that explains all the work done. If you (or anyone) is interested in buying the extra OBX diff, modded as shown, send me a PM...
Posted By: BAZINGA

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/17/14 12:39 AM

Quote
I'm thinking about welding my front diff. TF is a little outside my budget and welding is free since we just got a stick welder at work. My question is, is the front end (CVs, etc) strong enough that I wouldn't have to worry about breaking anything? I've got manual front hubs.


I had been thinking about this too. You would need to think long and hard before welding the front diff. Once done, you can't change your mind!
Posted By: BAZINGA

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/17/14 12:46 AM

Quote
Welding the front diff is a bad idea. The difference in the wheels' rotational speed is much greater in the front end vs the rear when turning. Factor in a series of articulating joints on the front where the rear has none and you've got a recipe for mechanical failure. Rear axles can get away with "Lincoln Lockers" (welding) or spools to some degree because the difference in wheel speed isn't as great and all the output goes to a single set of shafts. And from what I've heard from those who have tried, steering with a welded front end is nothing less than squirrely, to say the least. I'd say try looking for a used Mazda Miata LSD (geared/Torsen or clutch) for the front. They are a drop-in fit for the 7" front end of the Kia. I would go with the Torsen because they are strong and won't blow the clutches if you slam a wheel down after getting it in the air... And they don't need special gear oil, either.

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />

Note: I have an extra OBX geared LSD that I've modded extensively to make "bulletproof". I'm running one in my front axle and haven't had a single problem with it since making the mod. There's a thread here on the forum that explains all the work done. If you (or anyone) is interested in buying the extra OBX diff, modded as shown, send me a PM...


Would this also work with an auto transmission?
Posted By: Tommychu

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/17/14 06:29 AM

Clutch LSD on a 7" was an option on the S4 FC RX7, it was never offered on the Miata (Miatas all got helical or viscous). That said, of all the available options that clutch LSD would be my second choice after a TF. Rebuild parts are still available, they handle shock loading well and they're overall pretty tough. The only problem I have is that they're going for upwards of $400 for a worn unit in need of a rebuild, and they're nearly impossible to find in a junkyard.

I'm not sure why you're saying a helical LSD takes shock loading better than a clutch type. In a clutch LSD the clutches are there to limit relative motion between the side gears, that's all they do. When a shock load occurs the only thing that happens to the clutches is they stop rubbing against each other, all the load is taken by the side gears and spiders (which have their own limits, and are basically the most likely thing to fail in this situation in any diff that is not helical/torsen or Detroit/Ratchet-style like the TF) and transferred to the carrier. It's the one wheel spinning that the clutches don't like since they're being forced to rub against each other at high speed under the preload of the springs (and really, if it's set up tight enough that shouldn't happen in the first place but I digress).

Compare this to a helical where the outer worm gears simultaneously provide the differential action, control that action with their friction as they rub against the end of their bores in the carrier and handle all of the torque that is being fed from the carrier to the axle shaft- in this case you're still heating those little worm gears doing your one wheel peel and then when the shock load comes down they take it the same way the spiders and side gears would in an open or clutch diff.
The factory Miata torsens are famous for handling shock load very poorly indeed. It's not uncommon for a stock BP Miata to grenade its diff just coming off an icy patch onto dry asphalt under moderate to heavy throttle. Also why do you think the Torsen wasn't an option on the 7" diff in an RX7?
I'm not trying to badmouth the Torsen here either. It's an awesome design. For a road car application that doesn't see near-zero traction situations or shock loads often it's perfect. I am putting a Torsen in the transaxle I'm building for my DD. But it's not ideally a design I want to run in a rig that I'm going to be snot-bagging in the middle of nowhere.

Bazinga: front diffs were the same on all Sportages regardless of year, trans, or any other factor. There were a few different rear diffs, based on whether it was early 26spl or late 28spl, LSD or open, ABS or non-ABS.
Posted By: Peabody

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/17/14 08:29 AM

Bazinga - The diff setup doesn't have an impact on the transmission type. A Torsen/helical LSD will work fine with a manual or automatic transmission... If I understood your questions correctly.

Tommychu - Racing on pavement or even or dirt at speed, such as rally racing, is completely different from off-roading 4x4 style. Here's what I know from my own experience and that of others...

- Torsens are stronger for 4x4-style driving because they function as a solid chunk of metal. The gears only turn when there is enough of a difference in the wheel speed to allow it. The gears do not rotate at a high rate of speed. They counter-rotate slowly, thus allowing the power transfer to be split more effectively between the wheels when wheel speeds or traction conditions vary. All that stuff about gears turning fast and overheating is a bunch of bunk.

- Clutch systems tend to react to load by tightening up. If you get a wheel in the air and slam it down, all that energy is transferred to the clutch pack, which will tighten up due to the load. This is how a clutch pack can grenade when used on a 4x4. Sure, they work good on the pavement. But I'm talking about dirt. I got this bit of info from my local 4x4 shop. The guys recommended I stay away from the clutch LSDs, specifically for that reason.

- I've heard lots of people comment that Torsens are bad on the trail because you lose all power transfer if you get a wheel free-spinning. This is true to some extent and isn't favorable on the race track when running at speed. But on the trail, all you have to do is touch the brake pedal and you'll have power going to the wheel with traction. If you know how to operate the equipment, you won't have a problem. By the way, this is what they teach Humvee drivers in the US military. Because the Humvee uses 3 Torsens for it's traction system: 1 in the rear diff, 1 in the front and 1 in the transfer case. The Hummer ain't no rally car or an RX-7. It's made to go places those Barbie-rigs can only dream of... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Davey

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/17/14 03:07 PM

I'd keep saving for a TF or similar locker, well worth it
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/mrt.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 4x4Wire

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/18/14 12:01 AM

Quote
Welding the front diff is a bad idea. The difference in the wheels' rotational speed is much greater in the front end vs the rear when turning. Factor in a series of articulating joints on the front where the rear has none and you've got a recipe for mechanical failure. Rear axles can get away with "Lincoln Lockers" (welding) or spools to some degree because the difference in wheel speed isn't as great and all the output goes to a single set of shafts. And from what I've heard from those who have tried, steering with a welded front end is nothing less than squirrely, to say the least. I'd say try looking for a used Mazda Miata LSD (geared/Torsen or clutch) for the front. They are a drop-in fit for the 7" front end of the Kia. I would go with the Torsen because they are strong and won't blow the clutches if you slam a wheel down after getting it in the air... And they don't need special gear oil, either.


A welded front would be virtually impossible to turn; especially at speed. You can get away with it in the rear; HOWEVER, tire wear is accelerated and as mentioned, excessive pressures are put on suspension.

But, for full off-road use, works great....

BTDT with a welded rear diff...
Posted By: Tommychu

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/18/14 04:45 AM

Is welding a front diff generally a bad idea? Yes.
Is it really hard on basically the whole front end? Yep.
Can you steer in 4wd? No. Well, you can kinda if you go 3wd by locking only one hub and leave the other freewheeling until you really get into a situation.
Did I end up in an LSD debate that I'm now walking away from given that it's starting to enter keyboard warrior/scat flinging territory? Mmhmm.

Buuut that's not what I'm asking. I don't know as much as I'd like to about this platform specifically, and I was trying to find out if I could do it (as a temporary stopgap solution until I can get my hands on a proper diff at a price that my cheap arse can get down with) without obliterating my CVs in a single season.
Posted By: 4x4Wire

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 02/18/14 05:48 PM

But, you have brought forth additional information....

Thanks for asking your question. Each vehicle style offers its own challenges; especially when trying to shift from a standard multi-purpose platform straight from the showroom floor to a tuned for a specific application such as off road performance.

Many new products are developed to meet the emerging need. For each new product, many more are scrapped.

Lockers and bead locks are two subjects that garner a lot of comments.

In short, temporary (cheap) solutions seldom survive trail testing. Do your research and do it right the first time.
Posted By: tspot

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 01/12/15 05:26 AM

Where did the OP of this thread go? You said you got a locker to work but never explained how. Why???
Posted By: Dave Scott

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 03/12/15 04:01 AM

Just fyi, I ran a welded front diff in my Dana 44 axle on the old truck, and yeah, it was less easy to steer but, still plenty steerable. I'm going to weld the new Sportage's front diff. I'll let you know how it goes. I can't afford the lockers, especially since I know I'm going to swap the axles again within a year or two.
Posted By: Davey

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 11/13/15 03:46 PM

I'll post this here, as opposed to starting a new thread..

I run a TF locker in my front diff, with 5.38 gears and 31x10.5" tyres.
LOVE the locker, makes the Sporty unbelievably capable, never had any problems with it, and I wheel pretty hard sometimes. I did have some extra bearing shims made to get the clearances in spec on my worn diff carrier.

Now it seems there's a guy on the Micro Monsters FB page that reckons they're all crap and he's had 7 (seven) of them break within one hour of use... he also seems to have a problem with the Korean 3rd party dealer (PICORP). I had nothing but a good buying experience.

So I ask the members here if they've had ANY problems with the TrackFinder lockers, other parts or PICORP.

I do believe "this other guy" has a vested interest in another parts manufacturer (from one of his FB posts), as far as I know he's the ONLY person who's had trouble. If he is the only one, then something is fishy, or he's the worst installer ever.
If others have had problems, then let's hear it for a more balanced discussion!

I have NO vested interests in ANY parts manufacturers, just know that my TF gear has performed well beyond my expectations and have only thus far heard similar experiences from others.

If there are more widespread issues then it helps to get them known.

Cheers
Dave

Posted By: Peabody

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 11/13/15 06:03 PM

I'm running the TF locker in the rear axle. I have at least 5K miles on it and have had no issues so far. However, I purchased my locker through Nicemotors on eBay. It came assembled in carrier with new side bearings. So I can't comment on purchasing the locker through PICORP or the quality of the product he sells (assuming it isn't a non-TF locker). And I didn't have the opportunity to flub the install in the carrier...

I did purchase my 5.38 R&P set through PICORP. I've had no problem with those, thus far, even though I did the install myself. If I recall correctly, there were a few blokes that had trouble contacting PICORP for awhile after I had purchased my R&P set. Perhaps that implies some inconsistency in his quality of service? My experience was satisfactory. I'll leave it at that...
Posted By: 357transam

Re: Lockers, Lockers ,Lockers. - 11/19/15 06:57 PM

I can't comment on the locker, as I don't have one, yet. That being said, I had a wonderful purchasing experience from PICORP for my 5.38's. I had a shipping confirmation within a few hours of payment, and received the gears in four days from purchase date. That's pretty amazing since it typically takes at least 5 to get anything from about anywhere within the states. I will likely be ordering a front locker from them sometime in the next six months or so, once I'm done with the bumpers, and skids.
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