4x4Wire TrailTalk

new discussion on lift, tires, etc.

Posted By: Dave Scott

new discussion on lift, tires, etc. - 04/01/15 02:01 PM

For the most part, over the many years I have been a member of this forum, we've kept to discussions about what fits within the confines of the existing fender wells and how much lift it takes to fit what tire size. When I helped with trail leading for the 2007 ultimate adventure, a guy named Tim or Tom Hardy showed up, not in his usual beat to sh.. Samurai, but in a very clean looking Suzuki Grand Vitara with 5.5" custom lift and 35" tires. I scoured the very few pictures I could find on the web, as well as watched the video for his scenes. His tires barely seemed to rub and amazingly, they fit fully stuffed. After really looking at some stock GV pics, I realized he trimmed quite a bit of fender, very cleanly so as not to look trimmed. Now, granted, he had a beefed up rear axle, but the front was stock. He never broke on the trail, that is documented, and there is no mention of him having a body lift, so I suspect long bumpstops. So, questions - anyone ever run a 35 on stock axles? A 33? I ran 32's. What is the largest tire anyone has fitted andrun off the road on a Sportage with no body lift?
Posted By: Dave Scott

Re: new discussion on lift, tires, etc. - 04/02/15 01:10 AM

Ok, I'll reply to my own post... Did some math... Probably did the same math 10-15 years ago, but, here's to starting over...

Running a 33x12.5-15 on a standard steel wheel with the usual 3.75" backspace will put your outside edge of your tire 4.5" further out from where it sits with the stock rims and tires. THE INSIDE EDGE WILL STAY EXACTLY WHERE IT IS, 6" BACK FROM THE WHEEL MOUNT SURFACE. So, thAT puts the new center of the tire about 1-1/4" further outBOARD. This means, under compression, it hits a different spot. My old fully compressed 32's were just about almost even with the outside edge of the front fender (NO THEY WEREN'T, THEY STUCK OUT ABOUT 1-1.5" UNDER COMPRESSION AND SITTING, 2-2.5") and would still stuff up inside the rear wheel wells. Those tires only rubbed body and frame when steering.

Ok, but, a 33 is half an inch wider in both directions and a 35 is another inch taller all the way around. So, since I still had room to stuff in the rear, I think the width alone would be fine, but the added height means during the cycling of articulation, the tire surface will reach the fender area earlier in the swing than the 33, and might catch. Stuffing the front will be an entirely different issue due the very straight panel just behind the tire. The 32's didn't rub there, but a 35 likely would, not to mention the body mount just behind the tire. The 32's rubbed there but only under full lock steering.

So, here's what I'm thinking... Cutting some serious chunks out where they rub and then plating it with sheet metal (I JUST REALIZED I WAS TOTALLY WRONG IN MY IMAGINATION ABOUT MOST OF THE MEASUREMENTS, I DON'T THINK I'LL HAVE TO CUT MUCH, PLUS USE OF LIMIT STRAPS AND BUMPSTOPS WILL CREATE A MUCH BETTER FUNCTIONING VEHICLE, I THINK). And covering what I can with fender flares. Was emailing a guy at four track about the flares and a knock-off arb bumper from psk, but he hasn't responded. I would love to buy the lockers and gears too, but I still don't have cash flow like I'd like. I want to stick relatively close to stock for now minus lift and tires. I just mean I'm not swapping the axles yet. Basically, I want to run about 5.5" of lift, maybe drop the diff an inch, no body lift, lots of clean trimming and a 35x12.5-15 on a 15x8 with 3.75 bs. Since the lockers are out of reach for me, I will be welding my diffs. I may someday get the gears though, if they're still made by then. I am also going to do more t-s case doubler research and transmission adapter research to swap t-cases. T-case gears are just rowdy expensive to produce in small quantities. Ok, enough for now, my thumbs are tired. But expect more musings and ramblings as I am without a garage for another few months until we rent a house instead of an apartment. (THIS NO HOUSE THING IS REALLY GETTING TO ME NOW THAT I HAVE ANOTHER 4X4!) <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Dave Scott

Re: new discussion on lift, tires, etc. - 04/13/15 04:49 AM

Ok, took some measurements, did some math, etc. Best I can figure is that extending the total length of the front strut at ride height by 3.25" equals 5.5" of lift at the frame. 2" equals 3.5" at the frame. So, I have an ok worn out set of eibach springs I was told were probably good for 2" instead of the 2.5" when new. Plus 2" spacer from Everett should get me the 5.5" I need to match the rear Ford Aerostar coils I just worked for 1.5 hours to remove from the junk yard. I may need to extend the upper link a little, but for the panhard bar, I have a new/old idea- building a bracket that puts the axle end on top of the old mount. The rear coils are so long, I probably won't need retainers, but I may do bumpstops. In front, the strut will contact the CV but hopefully not to bad and the spacers should keep the 35" tires from eating my fenders, but I will definitely have to trim begin the front tires, in front of the rears, the bumpers and the rear body mount sheet metal as well as the plastic bumpers, if I keep them. Plus, a 35" tire on a 1.07" front CV shaft? Don't think it's gonna last too long, but I might be wrong. Guess we'll see.
Posted By: Dave Scott

Re: new discussion on lift, tires, etc. - 10/11/15 03:03 AM

So, we know the front suspension moves slightly backward under compression. With the factory positioning of the a-arms, any tire over 30" diameter will rub at the firewall. The a-arms are symmetrical, so swapping right to left won't help. But what about spacing the lower ball joint mount forward an inch and new tubular uppers that did the same? Any ideas? Yes, it would also pull the CV shafts forward, but if you're lowering your diff to match your lift or at least partially, maybe some clearances could be made that also allow moving it forward slightly. If not, then, yes, the CV shafts will have to contend with an additional plane to operate in. Just looking for suggestions.
Posted By: 4runnernomore

Re: new discussion on lift, tires, etc. - 10/11/15 04:39 AM

ADSKIA was running 34" pedes near the end of his project.

[Linked Image]

He was running around 6 " of lift by then from memory. Trimmed the crap out of the guards to get them to fit.
Dave the extended forks are available agin from Kore. That will stop the strut Spring base rub.

Cheers, Chris
Posted By: Dave Scott

Re: new discussion on lift, tires, etc. - 10/12/15 12:06 AM

Yeah, saw the forks, think picorp even emailed me. Thought about them, but I'm already ordering lockers and gears from them in about a month and I don't know if I can also afford the forks. But that's not really where I was going. Really just worried about the tires rubbing so much that steering is hindered. Moving the whole wheel mount surface forward would help avoid that. But back to the forks... Thinking about it...
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