4x4Wire TrailTalk

Tune Up and now No Fire

Posted By: Blue91SL

Tune Up and now No Fire - 07/22/15 02:26 AM

Okay guys, so as my first new post, I'd like to say hello! I'm working on my wife's '01 Sportage 4x4, which we plan on turning into a baby trail rider. First and foremost though, we have some issues we're trying to work out. Primarily a stutter and poor function.
So, what I did today has the car not running at all, and I'd love to get your opinions.
I disconnected the battery, and unplugged the MAF, TPS, and IAC. Then proceeded to disconnect all the hoses and whatnot and remove the intake crosspipe. I removed the MAF and cleaned it out with CRC MAF cleaner, and set it to the side. I also cleaned the crosspipe out with CRC Throttle Body/Intake cleaner. I then removed the throttle body, and cleaned it with the throttle cleaner as well. I then remove the cover to the plugs, and disconnect the wires from the ignition coils. Now, here's the first issue. The coil on #2 has a broken plug, but it's connected, and as of now the car has been running. So I disconnect the bare spades, and remove the coil. I do the same with the coil on #4, which has a good plug. Remove the wire on plug #1, no issue. Then I try to remove the stubby wire on #3, and it disintegrates. I had planned on changing the valve cover gasket anyway, so I took it off, and got the remains of the wire boot off. I pull the plugs out, and insert new NGKs gapped at .044. I replace the VC and put the coils back on, then put the wires back on, reassembled everything, and now no spark. For clarification, if you're looking at the engine, it should be:
Plug 4 = Coil w/wire to #1
Plug 3 = Plug w/short wire to 2
Plug 2 = Coil w/wire to #3
Plug 1 = Plug w/long wire to 4

Or am I stupid?
Posted By: Peabody

Re: Tune Up and now No Fire - 07/22/15 05:07 AM

No, not stupid. Are you getting a check engine light? If you have an OBD code reader, you should look for the codes, to include "pending". The 2 coil packs bolt in place. So it's easy to tell if they are not in the right positions. It's also easy to push the boots over the plugs but not get solid contact with between the wire end and the tip of the plug. A missing cylinder will make it run rough, for sure. Also, any connector not completely seated can do the same if the ECU is being retarded when interpreting and "correcting" the bad signal. But I'd bet the rough running is likely associated with the plugs and wires... I vote for the wires. And don't forget the little connector that runs to the coils from the back of the valve cover. It's easy to overlook. That said, once you have it running again, there's a chance you might get a "fuel system lean" kind of code. That can happen if there's air leaking into the cross pipe or any area downstream from the MAF. I tell you all of this from experience... cuz I do that kind of stuff too. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Blue91SL

Re: Tune Up and now No Fire - 07/23/15 05:22 AM

Thanks for the advice! I might go ahead and replace the coil boots. One of the coils (can't seem to remember which) didn't pop down on the plug like the other did, and I have a feeling that's the problem. Only downside is I'm broke! Lol. But the good news is that I've got a pretty good idea now. I just wasn't sure if the Kia was finicky about the CRC products or not.
I also deleted the resonance bottle on the intake pipe. I wasn't sure if that would cause any issues either.
The car threw a bunch of codes last time I checked it at work, but I never got around to changing the plugs because of how involved it is. I believe it also needs a catalytic converter. I live in a state where they are not required, would the car run alright without it?
Posted By: Peabody

Re: Tune Up and now No Fire - 07/23/15 05:52 AM

I don't think it will run well without a cat. Everything is ECU/computer controlled. Removing the cat will throw the O2 sensor values off and the ECU will try to compensate by adjusting the fuel/air mixture. And that won't make it run better...

The resonance chamber(s), if I recall correctly, were added to absorb/cushion the airflow being disrupted by back pressure from the intake valves opening and closing at various RPM in combination with acceleration/deceleration. I pulled mine for a while. But I reinstalled them when I had to get my Sporty smogged (Cali requires a visual inspection in addition to testing the emissions at the tail pipe <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/baby.gif" alt="" />). I didn't find any improvement in performance with them installed or removed. So I got lazy and left them on after the last smog check. No harm either way. You can cap the opening on the cross pipe with a plumbing-type expansion plug (rubber kind). But it doesn't help smooth the airflow through the cross pipe. If anything, it may add some turbulence. Again, I didn't find any change in performance... beyond invigorating my Speed Racer fantasy while driving my Sportage Mach 5... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Last bit: The coils make contact with a metal cap backed by a small spring - all of which is retained on the coil by the plug boot, if I recall correctly. The bolts hold the coils in place. The spring maintains the contact. There's no snapping into place like you get with a standard plug wire/boot. If you lost the spring on one... that could be a problem.

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Tommychu

Re: Tune Up and now No Fire - 07/23/15 08:20 PM

FYI that coil pack harness (the one that goes from the coil packs to the rear engine harness) is infamous for turning into dust, but the good news is you can get one at the stealership for less than $20. They fail so often that most dealerships include it in tune-up quotes for these cars. And a new plug wire set (make sure you get one that also includes the boots for the 2 coil-on-plugs) is also very cheap on RockAuto.

Did you change the gaskets on both sides of the TB when you took it off for cleaning? just trying to eliminate variables here.

Deleting the cat is entirely possible if you use an o2 sensor fooler or a couple of spark plug non-foulers on the downstream sensor (since the downstream exists for the sole purpose of making sure the cat is working properly- only the upstream one before the cat is used to determine where the fuel mixture is). But you don't want to replace or delete your cat unless you're absolutely 100% sure it's bad. Deleting it even doing it 'right' can still cause problems and should be done only as a last resort.

You're going to want to pick up an eBay $5 ELM327 bluetooth box and Torque Pro (and an old crappy Android phone off craigslist if you don't currently use android, Apple has locked out the bluetooth protocols that these adapters work on and there aren't any good OBDII apps for other phones) and determine exactly what's going on that makes you suspect the cat is bad, it's likely to also give you some insight on what's causing your no-start. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ELM327-OBD2-II-B...160&vxp=mtr
And I mean for the price there's no reason you shouldn't have one in your toolbox anyway.
Posted By: Blue91SL

Re: Tune Up and now No Fire - 07/23/15 10:40 PM

Okay guys, good news. The problem was that the wire harness to the coil pack wasn't firmly seated on the front coil, where the broken connector is. I placed it firmly on the spades and now the car is running much better. It idles properly now, and for the first time since I've met my wife, the car actually drives well at low speeds. However, I'm now painfully aware of the need to replace the engine mounts, as it's vibrating severely. Anyone have an idea of how bad they are to swap out?
I've got a flashing CEL like I did before under heavy load, but the car accelerates much better now. I'm pretty positive that the catalytic converter is still a problem, but I will have to wait until Saturday to put it on a diagnostic scanner.
But before I can do that, I need to get the fuel leak located and dismissed. Wife was stranded the other day, and it can't happen again.
Also, I hear a pinging sound coming from the top end. It sounds like an exhaust leak, but I'd like your opinions as well. So I'm going to upload a video as soon as photobucket allows me to share it.
Thanks for the help, guys!
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